Denzity Insights Transcript: Real Estate STO: Challenge and Outlook With Michael Wong


Real Estate STO: Challenge and Outlook With Michael Wong

Connect with Michael:

Website: https://www.maiblocks.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/amis-hong-kong/

Email: [email protected]

While real estate tokenization has been touted as a new movement, it hasn’t yet garnered significant momentum. As the coronavirus has accelerated the world economy’s digitization, has the pandemic pressure accelerated tokenization in real estate as well? In this episode, we have Michael sharing his thoughts on it.

Michael Wong is the co-founder of MaiBlocks Technology and MaiCapital, which is a fintech start-up in HK that aims to solve an age-old problem:  making illiquid investments more liquid.

  • Why is the security token offering a big topic in real estate?
  • How to participate in real estate tokenization
  • Things to be aware of while investing
  • Impact of COVID on real estate STO

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Source

Asia Security Token Alliance (ASTA): https://asiasta.com

MaiCapital: https://www.maicapital.io

MaiBlocks: https://www.maiblocks.com

Real Estate Security Token Offering: STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets.

Illiquid investment: Securities or assets that can neither be sold or exchanged easily for an equal value.

https://www.realtymogul.com/knowledge-center/article/what-are-illiquid-investments

Digitized fund: Digitized funds are capital funds that have been digitized with the use of blockchain technology.

Blockchain technology: A blockchain is basically a chain of blocks containing information online. The structure of a blockchain technology is designed as such, so that the data stored within cannot be tampered with.

https://www.euromoney.com/learning/blockchain-explained/what-is-blockchain

REITs: REITs are companies or farms that manage or own properties that generate a stable income. With REIT investment, investors can enjoy a steady profit without going through any hassle of operating the asset.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/reit.asp

STO exchange:  STO in real estate allows investors to have fractional ownership as the security tokens represent the market value of tokenized real estate assets. These tokenized assets can be traded on platforms known as STO exchanges.

Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Michael Wong

Darren Wong: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Hey, Mike. Hey, thanks for joining us.

Darren Wong:[00:00:00][00:00:00]嘿,Mike。嘿,謝謝你加入我們。

[00:00:01]Michael Wong: [00:00:01] Hey Darren. Good to see you again.

[00:00:01]邁克爾·王:[00:00:01]嗨,Darren。很高興再次見到你。

[00:00:03]Darren Wong: [00:00:03] Yeah, It’s been half like a year last time I see you.

[00:00:03]Darren Wong:[00:00:03]是的,我上次見到你已經是半年前。

[00:00:07]Michael Wong: [00:00:07] Yeah, it’s been a while. All these [00:00:10] interesting things happening in the world.

[00:00:07]邁克爾·王:[00:00:07]是的,已經有一段時間了。很多有趣的事情都正在進行中。

[00:00:11]Darren Wong: [00:00:11] Yeah, which is something that I’ll talk to you about, because we’re both in ASTA. And then we haven’t talked about what’s going to

[00:00:11]Darren Wong:[00:00:11]是的,因為我們都在ASTA,所以我會和你談談關於ASTA的事情。我們還沒談過市場會

[00:00:20] market or even what’s going on with regulation and even the real estate security token offering space. So this interview is something that I really want to talk to you about, even personally,

[00:00:20]發生什麼,甚至是關於監管,甚至是房地產安全代幣發行空間的變化。所以我是很期待這次的訪問的,即使是我個人也想

[00:00:30] to learn more what’s going on. So for the audience that don’t know who you are and what you do, would you mind give them a very short intro?

[00:00:30]瞭解更多情况。所以對於那些不知道你是誰和你做什麼的觀眾,你能給他們一個簡短的介紹嗎?

[00:00:38]Michael Wong: [00:00:38] Oh, sure, definitely. So Hi,

[00:00:38]邁克爾·王:[00:00:38]哦,當然,當然。嗨,

[00:00:40] everyone. My name is Michael and I’m a co-founder of MaiBlocks and MaiCapital. And what we’re doing here is we’re a FinTech

[00:00:40]各位。我叫Michael,是maiblocks和maicapital的聯合創始人。我們是一家在香港的金融科技

[00:00:50] startup here in Hong Kong that aims to solve an age-old problem, which is turning illiquid investments into something more liquid.

[00:00:50]初創公司旨在解决一個長久的問題,即將非流動性投資轉化為更具流動性的投資。

[00:01:00] And we’re trying to use the power of blockchain to help with that. So when people think about, for example, investing into real estate, traditionally, people would immediately associate that with

[00:01:00]我們正試圖利用區塊鏈的力量來幫助實現這一點。因此,當人們想到投資房地產,傳統上,人們會立刻聯想到

[00:01:10] something that’s very illiquid. So what we’re hoping is to use the power of blockchain to basically make this whole investment

[00:01:10]流動性很差的東西。所以我們希望利用區塊鏈的力量,基本上把整個投資

[00:01:20] much more liquid. We’re calling this as digitised funds. But you can check out more on our website as well

[00:01:20]變得更流動。我們稱之為數位基金。但你也可以在我們的網站上查看更多

[00:01:30] at maiblocks.com.

[00:01:30] 網址是maiblocks.com.

[00:01:31]Darren Wong: [00:01:31] So for people who don’t know about blockchain or crypto, what are the differences between the security token offering and initial coin

[00:01:31]Darren Wong:[00:01:31]那麼對於不瞭解區塊鏈或加密技術的人來說,簡單的來說,安全代幣發行和初始幣所提供的

[00:01:40] offering in simple terms?

[00:01:40]服務有什差別?

[00:01:42]Michael Wong: [00:01:42] Yeah, so there are a few key differences I would summarise them into a

[00:01:42]Michael Wong:[00:01:42]是的,所以我將它們總結為

[00:01:50] few key words. One is asset backed, the other one is regulation. And the third is risk. So both ICOs and STOs,

[00:01:50]幾個關鍵的差別。一個是資產擔保,另一個是監管。第三是風險。所以ICOs和STOs,

[00:02:00] STO meaning security tokens, use blockchain technology to enable a crowdfunding mechanism for people to raise capital.

[00:02:00]STO意為證券型代幣,使用區塊鏈科技為人們提供眾籌機制來籌集資金。

[00:02:10] And the key difference here is STOs are backed by actual tangible assets. These could be real assets like real estate, or it

[00:02:10]而關鍵的區別在於,證券型代幣是由實際有形資產支持的。這些資產可能是房地產之類的不動產,或者它

[00:02:20] could be income streams or profit streams, where ICOs are more promises of future services or

[00:02:20]也可以是收入流或利潤流,首次代幣發行(ICOs)是更多關於未來服務的承諾或者

[00:02:30] future products that you could use or buy. And so that’s one key difference is STO is backed by something that’s much more tangible.

[00:02:30]你可以使用或購買的未來產品。所以這就是一個關鍵的區別,證券型代幣是由更具體的東西支持的。

[00:02:40] The other thing is regulation. So there’s really, in many jurisdictions, STO is heavily regulated. There’s specific

[00:02:40]另一件事是監管。因此,在許多司法管轄區,證券型代幣受到嚴格監管。有具體的

[00:02:50] rules on what you can and cannot do, whereas ICOs in many cases are not. So the third key difference, which is risk,

[00:02:50]關於你能做什麼和不能做什麼的規則,而首次代幣發行在很多情况下則沒有受同等監管。所以第三個的關鍵區別就是風險,

[00:03:00] because the ICO is, in many cases, not properly regulated, it could be rampant with fraud and scams. And there’s a much

[00:03:00]由於首次代幣發行在許多情况下沒有得到適當的監管,所以舞弊和詐騙的情況有機會會猖獗。還有

[00:03:10] higher risk of speculation, where STOs is much more grounded.

[00:03:10]投機的風險更加高,在這種情況下,證券型代幣的基礎更為穩固。

[00:03:13]Darren Wong: [00:03:13] So obviously like blockchain has been a big topic for not only real estates, so is a really big industry and something that a lot

[00:03:13]Darren Wong:[00:03:13]顯然,區塊鏈不僅是房地產的一大主題,而且是一個非常大的行業,而且很多

[00:03:20] people, like yourself, obviously is thinking about, it’s gonna change how we look at trading and how we securitize something. So why is it huge

[00:03:20]像你這樣的人顯然在想,這將改變我們對交易的看法,以及我們如何將某些東西證券化。那麼,對於證券型代幣而言,

[00:03:30] for real estate when it comes to STO and then how’s the difference comparing to a REITs?

[00:03:30] 為什麼房地產是很重要的?和房地產投資信託相比又有什麼區別?

[00:03:37]Michael Wong: [00:03:37] Yeah, so real estate, as I started

[00:03:37]邁克爾·王:[00:03:37]是的,房地產,像我剛開始的時候提過

[00:03:40] earlier, people associated with investing in real estate is difficult to get in and also difficult to get out, meaning it’s very illiquid.

[00:03:40]與房地產投資相關的人很難入場,也很難離場,這意味著房地產的流動性非常低。

[00:03:50] Traditionally, in the real estate world, there aren’t that many ways to invest into real estate, especially on commercial properties.

[00:03:50]傳統上,在房地產領域,投資房地產的管道並不多,尤其是商用物業。

[00:04:00] Traditionally, either you go through private equity, which is still very illiquid in its form or through REITs, which is

[00:04:00]傳統上,你要麼通過私募股權,但它的形式仍然非常缺乏流動性,要麼通過房地產投資信託,後者就是

[00:04:10] essentially an IPO. So a listed process, which is much more liquid, so it allows a lot of people to get in, get out much easier, but it’s very expensive to

[00:04:10]本質上是首次公開募股。所以是一個上市的流程,流動性就大得多,所以讓很多人進出更容易,但結構的成本很高

[00:04:20] structure. So, what ends up happening is REITs tends to have many many assets under its portfolio. And

[00:04:20]因此,最終發生的是,房地產投資信託的投資組合中往往有許多資產。以及

[00:04:30] so the whole investment profile, the whole return profile, is washed out, is averaged out across many different

[00:04:30]整個投資組合,整個回報組合,都被抹去了,在許多不同的領域被平均化了

[00:04:40] assets. So for you seldom you would see single asset REITs, for example. STO in this case, because it is cheaper to structure

[00:04:40]資產。例如,你很少會看到單一資產的房地產投資信託。在這種情況下,因為證券型代幣的結構更便宜

[00:04:50] and is cheaper to issue, then it allows asset owners to structure single asset STOs, which would

[00:04:50]而且發行成本較低,因此它允許資產所有者構建單一資產的證券型代幣,這將

[00:05:00] offer similarly more liquid capabilities so people can get in and get out easier. So that’s one of the key differences between

[00:05:00]提供類似的更具流動性的功能,以便人們更容易投資。所以這是

[00:05:10] STO and REITs. There are other differences. For example, REITs are usually traded in public markets, which is only opened during business hours. Tokens

[00:05:10] 證券型代幣和房地產投資信託。還有其他不同之處。例如,房地產投資信託通常在公開市場交易,而公開市場只在營業時間開放。代幣

[00:05:20] can be traded 24/7, and there are also these various differences as well.

[00:05:20]可以全天候交易,而且也有這些不同之處。

[00:05:25]Darren Wong: [00:05:25] So obviously, it sounds really cool, right? I mean, just something that as a real estate investor, like,

[00:05:25]Darren Wong:[00:05:25]顯然,這聽起來很酷,對吧?我是說,作為一個房地產投資者,

[00:05:30] wow, that’s crazy. You can do that. But then, people have talked about this for a very long time, but how has it not be a mainstream? And then, in that regard,

[00:05:30]哇,太瘋狂了。你居然可以這樣做。但是,人們已經談論了很長一段時間了,但是它怎麼不是主流呢?然後,在這方面,

[00:05:40] obviously it’s not mainstream yet, what kind of challenges there are for the real estate asset being tokenized?

[00:05:40]顯然這還不是主流,房地產資產代幣化有什麼樣的挑戰?

[00:05:44]Michael Wong: [00:05:44] So on the first point, it has been talked about

[00:05:44]邁克爾·王:[00:05:44]所以關於第一點,我們已經討論過了

[00:05:50] this concept for over a year. And however it is still relatively new. It’s a new concept, especially to investors. And I think

[00:05:50]這個概念有一年多了。然而,它仍然是相對較新的。這是一個新概念,尤其是對投資者而言。我認為

[00:06:00] there are a few reasons. You know, one reason obviously is they are still a lot of hurdles to get through before you can actually issue an STO, including technology,

[00:06:00]有幾個原因。你知道,一個很明顯的原因是在你發佈證券型代幣之前還有很多障礙要克服,包括科技,

[00:06:10] regulation, even financial considerations. But we think there’s also one key element that’s been missing in this

[00:06:10]監管,甚至是財務方面的考慮。但我們認為還有一個關鍵因素在這生態系統上被遺漏

[00:06:20] ecosystem is exchange. A big benefit of STO is liquidity, so ability for people to exit the secondary

[00:06:20]就是交換。證券型代幣的一大好處是流動性,因此人們能够退出二級市場

[00:06:30] markets, like exchanges. However, exchanges that can support security tokens need to be properly regulated and licenced. And so, this depends on the

[00:06:30],就像交易所。然而,支持安全代幣的交易所需要得到適當的監管和許可。所以,這取決於

[00:06:40] regulator giving out licences to these operators. And right now, the regulator’s from all over the world it’s still been slow in distributing

[00:06:40]監管機構向這些運營商發放許可證。而現在,監管機構來自世界各地,在分配這些許可證上仍然很慢

[00:06:50] these licences, so the virus definitely put a

[00:06:50]而疫情肯定

[00:07:00] pause on all these activities as well. But we think over the next 6 to 12 months, we do expect more and more of these exchanges to pop out with

[00:07:00]暫停了所有這些活動。但我們認為,在未來6到12個月內,我們確實預計會有越來越多的適當的許可證和適當的監管的

[00:07:10] proper licences and proper regulation behind them. And so once these markets appear, then hopefully these liquidity will then show up.

[00:07:10] 交易出現。因此,一旦這些市場出現,那麼希望這些流動性會出現。

[00:07:20] And so that’s one of the reasons why it hasn’t really picked up in the mainstream. And regarding your second question on why

[00:07:20]這也是為什麼它沒有真正在主流中流行的原因之一。關於你的第二個問題為什麼

[00:07:30] hasn’t real estate asset owners swarm to doing tokenizing these assets? I think, in a lot of cases,

[00:07:30]房地產資產所有者不是蜂擁而至,將這些資產代幣化嗎?我想,在很多情况下,

[00:07:40] people are in a wait-and-see mode, whereas they don’t really want to be the first guy hooked and, so a lot of

[00:07:40]人們處於觀望狀態,但他們並不想成為第一個上鉤的人,所以

[00:07:50] people are just waiting for more success stories before they jump into this. So this becomes a little bit of a chicken and egg where you want to have good

[00:07:50]人們只是在等待更多的成功故事,然後才跳進來。所以這就變成了一個雞和蛋的情況

[00:08:00] assets out there but then you want to have good liquidity and which comes first.

[00:08:00]你想有好的資產在那裡,但是你也想要有良好的流動性,這就要看哪樣先發生。

[00:08:05]Darren Wong: [00:08:05] So in your opinion, what type of real estate asset type what

[00:08:05]Darren Wong:[00:08:05]那麼在你看來,什麼樣的房地產資產類型是什麼

[00:08:10] investment strategy that are best suited for tokenize? And then, what aren’t the best for tokenized?

[00:08:10]最適合代幣化的投資策略?然後,什麼不能作代幣化?

[00:08:16]Michael Wong: [00:08:16] Yeah, so, again, because this is still a very new

[00:08:16]邁克爾·王:[00:08:16]是的,再一次,因為這還是

[00:08:20] concept, so we want to remove as much of the uncertainties as possible. And so, by putting assets that

[00:08:20]一個相對新的概念,所以我們希望盡可能地消除不確定性。因此,通過將

[00:08:30] are less risky, that are already generating regular dividends or regular yields, those types of

[00:08:30]風險較小的,已經產生定期股息或定期收益的資產,這些類型的資產

[00:08:40] assets, I think, would make more sense for STOs today. And also commercial properties

[00:08:40]我認為,會對如今的證券型代幣來說更有意義。還有商用物業

[00:08:50] is going to be more interesting for STO space because there are already many different ways for people to invest into residential properties. Now, whereas commercial properties are

[00:08:50]對於證券型代幣空間來說會更有趣,因為人們已經有很多不同的管道投資自住物業。現在,商用物業

[00:09:00] still quite limited in the accessibility of it. So we think a mixture of these type of assets would be a better fit for now.

[00:09:00]它的可用性仍然非常有限。因此,我們認為,混合使用這些類型的資產將更適合現時的情况。

[00:09:09]Darren Wong: [00:09:09] I

[00:09:09]Darren Wong:[00:09:09]我

[00:09:10] see. So, I know because we talk a lot before about what kind of asset and everything, right? Is there something in your mind that you think it

[00:09:10]明白了。所以,我知道,因為我們之前談了很多關於什麼樣的資產和所有的事情,對吧?你認為

[00:09:20] should be, because less risky is a very broad term, is there a certain like size or even, for example, income generating and

[00:09:20]因為低風險是一個非常寬泛的術語,是否存在某種類似的規模,或者甚至,例如,產生收入和

[00:09:30] less risk? What does that mean to you? Does anyone know in your point of view, that’s it.

[00:09:30]較低的風險?這對你意味著什麼?有沒有人在你看來,就是這樣。

[00:09:33]Michael Wong: [00:09:33] I think there’s an element of, you know, how much of the market exists today. So if you throw

[00:09:33]邁克爾·王:[00:09:33]我認為有一個因素,你知道,是今天市場價值有多少。所以如果你扔

[00:09:40] something out that’s huge, let’s say a billion dollar worth of assets, probably the market is not there yet to pick up the whole

[00:09:40]一些巨額的資產,比如說價值10億的資產,可能市場還沒有能力可以

[00:09:50] piece of the asset. So in terms of size, I think we’re still in the 10 to 100 million dollar size,

[00:09:50]接收全部的資產。所以就規模而言,我認為我們仍處於1000萬到1億美元的規模,

[00:10:00] kind of the US dollar market. And in terms of risks, what we’re meaning is that there are different types of investment

[00:10:00]類似這樣的美元市場。就風險而言,我們的意思是有不同類型的投資

[00:10:10] properties. It could be a property where you’re just buying a piece of land where the whole property hasn’t been built yet, but it needs to be built up from ground up. So

[00:10:10]項目。它可能是一個你只是買了一塊土地的房產,整個房產還沒有建成,但它需要從頭開始建設。所以

[00:10:20] those, in many cases, are what we categorise as much more risky, versus where you already have an existing building that’s in an

[00:10:20]在很多情况下,這些是我們歸類為風險更大的地方,相比之下,你已經有了一棟物業是

[00:10:30] office building and you’re already collecting rent from existing tenants. We have an ongoing track record from the returns of the

[00:10:30]一棟辦公樓,你已經在向現有租戶收取租金。我們從物業的收益中獲得持續的記錄,

[00:10:40] property that we’ll, in our state, will categorise it as a more certain investment.

[00:10:40]在我們的情況下,我們將把它歸類為更肯定的投資。

[00:10:48]Darren Wong: [00:10:48] I see. I

[00:10:48]Darren Wong:[00:10:48]我明白了。我

[00:10:50] think that I feel like if we do this, like every single year, I think it will be like, you look back to how things are becoming and evolving, that would be kind of cool in the future from

[00:10:50]我覺得如果我們這樣做,每一年,我想它會像,你會回顧一下事情的發展和演變,那在未來會從

[00:11:00] speculating to it happens more cases in cases, because I obviously hope the industry goes well, too. So something that is in my mind be like, “that’s kind of cool if that happens”. And

[00:11:00]在推測到個案在逐漸發生,因為我顯然希望這個行業也能順利發展。所以在我的腦海裏會有這樣的想法,“如果真的發生了,那就太酷了”。以及

[00:11:10] so as if to follow up, so what other components or parties need to be involved or participate to make the real estate tokenization happen or matured?

[00:11:10]因此,如果要進一步的話,那麼,要使房地產代幣化發生或成熟,還需要哪些其他組件的加入或者哪方的參與?

[00:11:19][00:11:20] Michael Wong: [00:11:19] They are obviously different players. There’s technology players, there are financial players and obviously the real estate players. But I think a big key component is

[00:11:19][00:11:20]邁克爾·王:[00:11:19]他們顯然是不同的持分者。有科技的持分者,有金融的持分者,當然還有房地產的持分者。但我認為一個重要的組成部分是

[00:11:30] regulators, or the government. So basically having the government behind it, and putting

[00:11:30]監管者或者是政府。所以基本上是有政府支持,然後

[00:11:40] down the right rules and regulation to protect investors, I think that would give a lot of confidence to attract

[00:11:40]製定正確的規則和法規來保護投資者,我認為這會給投資者帶來很大的信心來吸引

[00:11:50] more, both retail and institutional investors to come into the space. So I think that is a big piece of this as well.

[00:11:50]更多,包括散戶和機構投資者來投資。所以我認為這也是其中的一個重要部分。

[00:11:57]Darren Wong: [00:11:57] I see. So for

[00:11:57]Darren Wong:[00:11:57]我明白了。所以

[00:12:00] existing real estate STO out there, what are things that the audience need to be aware of?

[00:12:00]現有的房地產市場的STO,觀眾需要注意什麼?

[00:12:07]Michael Wong: [00:12:07] Ultimately

[00:12:07]邁克爾·王:[00:12:07]最終

[00:12:10] what the investors will be investing is the underlying asset. The token really facilitates the investment but it’s not really the point of the

[00:12:10]投資者將投資的是相關資產。代幣確實有助於投資,但並不是

[00:12:20] investment, when you’re investing is the underlying property or real estate or whatever asset it is. So I think the key is the valuation of what you’re investing

[00:12:20]投資的重點,當你投資的是相關資產或房地產或任何資產。所以我認為關鍵是你投資的價值

[00:12:30] should focus mainly on that asset itself, rather than the token. So this removes a lot of the

[00:12:30]應該主要關注資產本身,而不是代幣。所以這就消除了很多

[00:12:40] speculative aspect of this. And I think that’s most important. I mean, the other parts also is you need to

[00:12:40]這是推測的性質。我認為這是最重要的。我是說,其他部分也是你需要去

[00:12:50] worry about the issuance and the service providers that are providing these tokens to you making sure that they’re

[00:12:50]擔心發行和向你提供這些代幣的服務提供者確保他們是

[00:13:00] legitimate. They are proper. That’s to protect you on investments.

[00:13:00]合法的。它們是正規的。這是為了保護你的投資。

[00:13:05]Darren Wong: [00:13:05] That’s good. Well, because like we’re both in Hong Kong and something that even I want to

[00:13:05]Darren Wong:[00:13:05]很好。嗯,因為我們都在香港,所以我想

[00:13:10] ask you, where are we with the real estate STO in Hong Kong, and then how’s activities with different countries at the moment?

[00:13:10]問你的是,香港房地產的STO發展到什麼階段了,以及現時與不同國家的活動如何?

[00:13:19]Michael Wong: [00:13:19] Hong Kong,

[00:13:19]邁克爾·王:[00:13:19]香港,

[00:13:20] frankly, has been relatively slow, compared to the rest of the world. I think the regulator has been pretty public

[00:13:20]坦率地說,與世界其他地區相比,進展相對緩慢。我認為監管機構關於支持數位資產和相關業務,包括STO

[00:13:30] about supporting digital assets and related business, including STO. However, we have not seen any

[00:13:30]已經相當公開了。但是,我們還沒有看到任何

[00:13:40] actual licences, for example, that’s given out to exchanges. But we do expect probably maybe that was

[00:13:40]實際發放給交易所的許可證。但我們認為可能是

[00:13:50] delayed by the virus pandemic. Hopefully we’ll see some progress closer to the end of this year.

[00:13:50]被疫情耽擱了。希望我們能在接近今年年底的時候看到一些進展。

[00:14:00] Compared to the US and Singapore, they actually have already issued licences to exchanges and major players in the space. So

[00:14:00]與美國和新加坡相比,她們實際上已經向該領域的交易所和主要參與者頒發了許可證。所以

[00:14:10] at least for now, seemingly, they’re moving a little bit faster than Hong Kong. But hopefully Hong Kong can catch up soon.

[00:14:10]至少目前看來,他們的速度比香港快一點。但希望香港能儘快趕上。

[00:14:17]Darren Wong: [00:14:17] So like you know,

[00:14:17]Darren Wong:[00:14:17]所以,你知道我曾

[00:14:20] at ASTA for a while, learning about the sharing insight about STO world and stuff like that. And there’s a lot of noise online too, and

[00:14:20] 參加過亞洲證券型代幣聯盟一段日子,學習關於STO世界的見解和諸如此類的東西。網上也有很多聲音,而且

[00:14:30] everyone have different opinions and stuff like that. What is something in this industry that you think is misunderstood or overrated?

[00:14:30]每個人都有不同的觀點和諸如此類的事情。在這個行業中,你認為什麼東西被誤解或高估了?

[00:14:35]Michael Wong: [00:14:35] I think there’s a lot of

[00:14:35]邁克爾·王:[00:14:35]我認為有很多對STO的

[00:14:40] misconception STO the T stands for token. But when people think about token, then a lot of people immediately associate that with ICOs

[00:14:40]誤解;T代表代幣。但當人們想到代幣時,很多人立刻將其與首次代幣發行聯系起來

[00:14:50] or a lot back in 2017 2018, where there were a lot of frauds and scams associated with ICOs and

[00:14:50]或更早的2017年和2018年,當時有很多與首次代幣發行和

[00:15:00] tokens, and so people will immediately become very risk averse on accepting does that idea, even though you know token is essentially

[00:15:00]代幣的詐騙和舞弊,所以人們一旦接受這種想法,就會立刻變得非常厭惡風險,即使你知道代幣本質上是這樣

[00:15:10] a term that we computer geeks come up with, to represent something that’s virtual. It’s

[00:15:10]一個我們電腦怪客想出的術語,用來表示虛擬的東西。它是

[00:15:20] really a tool, and a tool can be properly managed and the risk can be contained if

[00:15:20]真正的工具,如果周圍有足夠的保護措施,

[00:15:30] there are enough protections around it. And so, STO is nothing like these type of scam tokens out there. So I think that’s one of the biggest

[00:15:30] 則可以對工具進行適當的管理並控制風險。所以,STO和外面的這些騙局一點都不像。所以我認為這是最大的

[00:15:40] misconception of them.

[00:15:40]對它們的誤解。

[00:15:41]Darren Wong: [00:15:41] I see. So for the audience, right, who might be people who are technologists, real estate owners,

[00:15:41]Darren Wong:[00:15:41]我明白了。所以對於觀眾來說,對吧,他們可能是科技專家,房地產商,

[00:15:50] or people who just want to participate in this whole movement, what would you suggest that they can participate?

[00:15:50]或者只是想參與整個運動的人,你認為他們可以參加什麼?

[00:15:58]Michael Wong: [00:15:58] So,

[00:15:58]邁克爾·王:[00:15:58]所以,

[00:16:00] I think the best thing is to invest, to actually try it out. I think you won’t know how it works until you actually try it. I

[00:16:00]我認為最好的辦法是投資,真正嘗試一下。我想除非你真的試過,否則你不會知道它是怎麼運作的。我

[00:16:10] don’t mean going all out and put all your savings into it, but there are now more and more ways for people to

[00:16:10]並不是說全力以赴地把你所有的積蓄都投入其中,但是現在有越來越多的管道讓人們

[00:16:20] get on exchanges or websites where you can actually legally buy and invest in these STOs. So I would

[00:16:20]進入交易所或網站,在那裡你可以合法購買和投資這些STOs。所以我會

[00:16:30] encourage people to just try it out, put down a little bit of money just to see it and see how it works.

[00:16:30]鼓勵人們試一試,拿出一點錢來看看它是如何運作的。

[00:16:34]Darren Wong: [00:16:34] So just now, I think a couple questions ago, we talked about how COVID-19 might have

[00:16:34]Darren Wong:[00:16:34]剛才,我想幾個問題之前,我們討論了新冠肺炎可能令

[00:16:40] delayed a little bit of the process, right? But then even with COVID-19 and the recession, how do you think that they impact the real estate STO movement so far?

[00:16:40]整個過程有點延遲,對吧?但是,即使有了新冠肺炎和經濟衰退,到目前為止,你認為它們對房地產的證券型代幣有何影響?

[00:16:49]Michael Wong: [00:16:49] It’s

[00:16:49]邁克爾·王:[00:16:49]這

[00:16:50] interesting, because the pandemic, while it’s devastating to many people, forced a lot of people to think about how to do things differently.

[00:16:50]很有趣,因為疫情雖然對很多人來說是毀滅性的,但卻迫使很多人思考如何以不同的管道做事。

[00:17:00] And one of the key impact is just a lot less face-to-face time. Now even you and I have to

[00:17:00]其中一個關鍵的影響就是大大减少了面對面的時間。現在就連你和我都不得不

[00:17:10] talk over Zoom now instead of meeting face to face.        

[00:17:10]在Zoom上談話,而不是面對面見面。

[00:17:14]Darren Wong: [00:17:14] We’re twenty minutes away, you know. I could take a cab and find you. Yeah, sorry, keep going.

[00:17:14]Darren Wong:[00:17:14]我離你只有20分鐘的車程,你知道的。所以,我可以搭計程車來找你。是的,對不起,請繼續。

[00:17:20] Sorry about that.

[00:17:20]很抱歉。

[00:17:20]Michael Wong: [00:17:20] No worries. So a lot of traditional means of raising capital, such as private equities, a lot of deals close

[00:17:20]邁克爾·王:[00:17:20]別擔心。所以很多傳統的融資方式,比如私募股權,很多交易

[00:17:30] after face-to-face meetings, but then now these meetings don’t occur, and which means it’s much harder to close these deals. And so STOs offer an alternative way for

[00:17:30]在面對面會議之後成交,但現在這些會議沒有舉行,這意味著要完成這些交易要困難得多。所以STOs提供了一種替代方法讓

[00:17:40] people to, to close deals and raise capital. Furthermore, I think the pandemic is causing a lot of valuation

[00:17:40]人們去完成交易和籌集資金。此外,

[00:17:50] issues for real estate home and asset owners as well. And so, some of these guys are now looking into more alternative ways to raise capital,

[00:17:50] 我認為疫情病也給房地產房屋和資產所有者帶來了很多估值問題。所以,這些人中的一些人現在正在尋找更多的融資方式,

[00:18:00] beyond just the traditional means. And so I think STO is something that is now getting on their radar.

[00:18:00]超越傳統手段。所以我認為STO現在正被他們所關注。

[00:18:07]Darren Wong: [00:18:07] Yeah, because like, I think there’s a company that I

[00:18:07]Darren Wong:[00:18:07]是的,因為我知道有一家公司

[00:18:10] think we both know are doing like virtual roadshow, and then I was like, “Oh, that’s kind of cool”, and then I was looking at some tech recently were

[00:18:10]我們都知道他們在做虛擬路演,然後我想,“哦,這有點酷”,然後我最近在看一些科技

[00:18:20] like virtual showing, drones surveillance and stuff like that. I even, personally, I feel like this can work, everything combined together, it’s not only STOs about the investing

[00:18:20]比如是虛擬展示,無人機監控等等。我甚至,就我個人而言,我覺得這是可行的,所有的東西結合在一起,這不僅僅是關於STOs和投資

[00:18:30] world, about the real estate investing, how we come together to build in and more people can participate in all shape and size. And then so like the audience might not

[00:18:30]世界,關於房地產投資,我們如何團結在一起進行建設,讓更多的人參與各種形式和規模的投資。然後觀眾可能不會

[00:18:40] know that you’re from San Francisco, and I’m sure you have technologists thinking, what should we expect to see when it comes to the STO world in a few years time?

[00:18:40]知道你來自舊金山,我相信你有科技專家們在想,幾年後的STO世界出現,我們應該期待看到什麼?

[00:18:50] My point of view.

[00:18:50]我的觀點。

[00:18:51]Michael Wong: [00:18:51] I think we would expect a much more vibrant ecosystem with a lot of different players, with exchanges, with issuers,

[00:18:51]Michael Wong:[00:18:51]我認為我們會期待一個更加充滿活力的生態系統,也會有很多不同的參與者,有交易所,有發行人,

[00:19:00] with asset owners and investors right all together and seeing this whole story play out on a global basis as

[00:19:00]資產所有者和投資者齊心協力,在全球的層面上合作。

[00:19:10] well. So we’re not talking about Hong Kong people investing into Hong Kong assets, we’re talking about Hong Kong people investing into tokenize assets from the States, and people

[00:19:10]所以我們說的不是香港人投資香港的資產,而是香港人投資美國的代幣性資產;

[00:19:20] in Africa investing into assets potentially in Hong Kong. So I think that’s what we expect. It does take more time to build it out.

[00:19:20]非洲人投資於可能在香港的資產。所以我想這就是我們所期望的。它確實需要更多的時間來構建。

[00:19:30] But I think in three, four years time, this will be much more interesting.

[00:19:30]但我認為在三到四年後,這會更有趣。

[00:19:34]Darren Wong: [00:19:34] I see. If you have a message to everyone in the STO or real estate

[00:19:34]Darren Wong:[00:19:34]我明白了。如果你有話要告訴STO或房地產界別的每個人

[00:19:40] sector, and what would that be?

[00:19:40]那會是什麼?

[00:19:42]Michael Wong: [00:19:42] I think what’s happening in the world today is really a strong

[00:19:42]邁克爾·王(Michael Wong):[00:19:42]我認為當今世界正在發生的事情真的是一個

[00:19:50] indication that a lot of things needs to change and how they’re done. And there’s a lot of talks about

[00:19:50]明顯的指標來說明很多事情需要改變,以及如何改變。有很多關於

[00:20:00] whether globalisation was to exist with this pandemic still running rampant and people can’t travel and they can’t see each other. But I think

[00:20:00]全球化是否還會存在,因為疫情仍在肆虐,人們不能旅行,也看不見彼此。但我認為

[00:20:10] globalisation will still continue, but is in much less a physical form.

[00:20:10]全球化仍將會繼續,但其形式遠不是實體形式。

[00:20:13]Darren Wong: [00:20:13] I see.

[00:20:13]Darren Wong:[00:20:13]我明白了。

[00:20:14]Michael Wong: [00:20:14] Instead, I think a lot more things will happen online, right? We didn’t have these zoom calls much, at

[00:20:14]邁克爾·王:[00:20:14]相反,我認為發生更多的事情會在網上發生,對吧?在疫情之前,這些zoom的會議的發生頻率

[00:20:20] least much less frequent, before COVID-19. And so a lot of things will happen online, transactions will happen online, and STO is poised

[00:20:20]沒有像現在那樣頻繁。所以很多事情都會在網上發生,交易也會在網上發生,而STO已經做好了

[00:20:30] to replace a lot of these real-estate-type investments and transactions and activities.

[00:20:30]取代許多此類房地產投資和交易活動的準備。

[00:20:35]Darren Wong: [00:20:35] Actually, that sounds like a very good takeaway for the audience just to know what’s going on. And

[00:20:35]Darren Wong:[00:20:35]實際上,對於觀眾來說,這聽起來很不錯,因為他們知道發生了什麼。以及

[00:20:40] do you have other takeaways that you want the audience to take away from this whole video?

[00:20:40]在整個短片中,你希望觀眾從整個短片中還能獲得什麼其他收穫嗎?

[00:20:45]Michael Wong: [00:20:45] Yeah, I think it’s STO again, it’s a brand new concept. I

[00:20:45]邁克爾·王:[00:20:45]是的,我認為又是證券型代幣,這是一個新概念。我

[00:20:50] think it’s a very interesting concept, whether you’re an investor or an asset holder, it’s something that could be interesting and valuable to you. And so if you’re

[00:20:50]認為這是一個非常有趣的概念,無論你是投資者還是資產持有人,它都可能是你感興趣和有價值的。所以如果你

[00:21:00] looking into this a little bit more and you want to learn more about it, please check out our website, maiblocks.com,

[00:21:00]想瞭解更多資訊,請訪問我們的網站,maiblocks.com,

[00:21:10] m-a-i-b-l-o-c-k-s-.-com and you can even sign up on our platform and check out on deals that we start to have on our platform. And

[00:21:10]m-a-i-b-l-o-c-k-s-.-com,你甚至可以在我們的平臺上注册並查看我們平臺上有的交易。以及

[00:21:20] if you’d like to talk to us personally, maiblocks, we can offer an end-to-end service in the space of Sto. And we would love

[00:21:20]如果你願意親自與我們交談,maiblocks,我們可以在證券型代幣的領域提供點到點的服務。我們希望

[00:21:30] to talk to you about it.                   

[00:21:30]能和你談談。

[00:21:31]Darren Wong: [00:21:31] That’s great. I think, Well, obviously, I will include everything in the show notes. And then I think we should meet up soon because it’s been a while.

[00:21:31]王達倫:太好了。我想,嗯,很明顯,我會把所有的東西都放在資訊欄裡。我想我們應該儘快見面,因為已經有一段時間了。

[00:21:40] Thanks so much for your time. Because we know what Denzity insight, we cover a lot of different things. And STO has been this biggest biggest thing that

[00:21:40]非常感謝你抽出時間。因為我們知道Denzity涵蓋了很多不同的東西。而證券型代幣是其中最大的事情之一

[00:21:50] I even take a long time to learn and digest everything, so I hope that we have this more often some kind of long form discussions. And then even maybe we can

[00:21:50]我甚至要花很長的時間來學習和消化所有的東西,所以我希望我們能經常進行這類型比較長的討論。然後也許我們可以

[00:22:00] have this like whole every quarter of learning about STO what’s going on. So it’s something that I want to thank you for having the time to talk to us and then I hope the audience, too, will learn more about

[00:22:00]每季度都瞭解證券型代幣發生了什麼。所以我要感謝你們有時間和我們交談,然後我希望觀眾也能瞭解更多

[00:22:10] how the whole world will be coming a couple years time.

[00:22:10]未來幾年整個世界將會怎樣。

[00:22:13]Michael Wong: [00:22:13] Yeah, definitely. Thank you for taking the time to learning about our world. And I think this is a great channel for

[00:22:13]邁克爾·王:[00:22:13]是的,當然。感謝你抽出時間來瞭解我們的世界。我認為這是一個很好的渠道

[00:22:20] people like us to communicate new ideas to the world.

[00:22:20]讓像我們這樣的人向世界傳達新的想法。

[00:22:23]Darren Wong: [00:22:23] Yeah. Thanks so much and talk to you next time then, thank you.

[00:22:23]Darren Wong:[00:22:23]是的。非常感謝,下次再和你談談,謝謝。

[00:22:26]Michael Wong: [00:22:26] Alright, see you later. Thank you. Bye bye.

[00:22:26]邁克爾·王:[00:22:26]好的,回頭見。謝謝您。再見。

[00:22:27]Darren Wong: [00:22:27] Bye bye.

[00:22:27]Darren Wong:[00:22:27]再見。

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