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When it comes to investment, information is key, especially when you are looking into investing in a foreign market. Accurate information can definitely help you understand the market better and assist you to make the right choices to have a smooth investing experience. But how do we gather reliable information, to begin with?
In this episode, Ariel Shtarkman talks about networking and technology, the two important factors to take into consideration while investing overseas. She also shares her experience and knowledge regarding the mentioned topic.
- Why invest in overseas Real Estate?
- How do you assess the risks involved?
- Is overseas investing really worth the risk?
- How do markets vary location wise?
- Where does technology come into play?
As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.
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Real Estate Private Equity: Real Estate Private Equity (REPE) is a type of real investment firm that takes capital from outside investors and invests mostly in commercial properties such as, hotels or malls and sells them after a certain period of time for a profit.
Structure finance: Much like mortgages or loans, structure finance is also a financial tool or instrument. But, unlike normal loans, structure finance is used by larger corporations, organizations or entities. The requirements vary case to case.
Due diligence: Simply put, due diligence is the investigation of the financial world. It is when a background or security check is performed on another party before making a transaction.
[Real estate investment] title: Real estate investing is investing in a property or asset, whether in the form of lands or buildings. The investment can include buying, owning or renting a property and using or selling it for profit.
Uran Land Institute: Urban Land Institute (ULI) is an organization that consists of 40,000 members worldwide, who are involved in any sort of professions related to Real Estate. ULI members are dedicated to provide free research and education platforms to learn about the responsible use of land.
Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!
Darren: Hey Ariel, thanks for coming to the show.
Darren: Hi. So for the audience that don’t know about you, I’ll give you a little bit of an introduction from my side, because I think I met you three years ago. And then there was a talk about the future of Prop tech and you were one of the panelists on it. So I remember I reached out to you and asked you some questions. And somehow we just kept meeting up afterwards, something that is kind of interesting that after so many years, I still ask you questions about what’s going on in the prop tech space and real estate space. So it’s good to have you here.
Ariel: Thank you so much for inviting me, happy to be here.
Darren: Yeah. So for the audience who might not know who you are, would you mind telling them about you and your work?
Ariel: Sure. So My Name Is Ariel Shtarkman and I’m originally from Israel. I’ve been in Hong Kong now for 12 years. I started my career in real estate direction and real estate private equity in New York after graduating from Columbia Business School, and the fund I worked for, transferred me here in 2008 for a very exciting position in real estate, private equity. Of course, we all know what happened at the end of 2008 and 2009. So, a financial crisis happened and I was very fortunate to move to Citibank here in Hong Kong, and in Citibank and at several positions, I helped restructured some of those special situation deals in real estate. And I was involved in the structured finance team arranging primarily debt financing for real estate companies across Asia.
A few years ago, I wanted to go my own route and always wanted to be an entrepreneur. So I started my own business, actually, several lines of business, if you will, I’m an investor in real estate, and I had a portfolio of assets in Hong Kong, which I actually sold a couple of years ago, and I’m always looking for more interesting opportunities. I have a separate venture in western New York real estate, with Asian family offices. And though those are more club deals, private equity type deals structured into the class of New York. And lastly, in the last, I would say 36 months since women really, I started to get more and more involved in the prop tech space. First, it was very interesting to me to understand how technology and innovation will change our really traditional industry. And as a learned more I realize that the only way to really understand how technology and real estate merge is to become an investor myself. So I’m an angel investor in several prop tech startups. I only focus on Prop tech in all my angel investing VC ventures, and we can talk more about kind of what opportunities I’m looking for. But, um, I would say in the last year, that became a much bigger portion of what I do, whether it’s constantly meeting startups, other investors and understanding the eco system and how we can push for innovation in real estate.
Darren: That’s cool. Because I think that when I’m preparing the material to have this recording with you it’s really a wide range looking at your resume. It’s like you have very vast experiences in the real estate space. And then you decided to digitize like look into this whole space. So this conversation is meant for looking at that because not only do you have those experience, but you actually do a lot of things cross border, you’re from Hong Kong, you’re in Hong Kong now, but you actually have deals from overseas, which is something that is very interesting, because you know, our channel is for overseas investors to find real estate opportunities. So it’s really exciting to have this. So for beginners today-
Ariel: I think, yeah, for your point, it is impossible to do cross border investments now without technology without a platform like yours, because it will be extremely difficult and inefficient really and this is where technology can play a major, major role.
Darren: Yeah, thanks for your shout out because it’s something that, you know, I think a lot of players are trying to do to bridge the gap inbetween of the whole ecosystem. So hopefully, you know, people can have more, understand what’s going on, know what is better, find people they can trust cross border. Well, so for beginners who are not familiar with real estate investing, right, would you mind telling them about why people would invest in oversea real estate market? Because it’s not easy? Because you can always invest somewhere close to you, maybe 20-30 minutes walk away from you, but why would you choose all the way from miles away or have to globe away sometimes?
Ariel: Sure. I think there are two main reasons really, one is of course portfolio diversification and my sort of network accompasses primarily private investors and family offices. And even in the last year since Hong Kong had been through some turbulence, and then COVID-19 situation, a lot of those investors while no one is planning to leave Hong Kong, but investors are looking to diversify outside. Real estate is something that traditionally Asian investors really love and understand. And I feel that that’s almost a natural segway into diversification, investing in real estate abroad, of course, easier said than done. As I mentioned, it is very, very difficult. But diversification is of course, one main reason. And second, I would say, looking for better returns. Now looking for better returns is tricky because as we know, Hong Kong real estate is very efficient, is very stable and it’s very, very expensive. I mean, even since the events of last year, plus the Covid-19 situation, well, of course, rents have been going down in some parts of the sector. But overall, you don’t see distress, you don’t see the market, significantly correcting, meaning that a lot of the investors think that it’s a little bit too expensive, a little bit too unaffordable, and they’re looking for opportunities and to without better words, to make more money on their real estate. Now, I think that’s a very important component of it, of course, risk. And if you are going to another country, how do you assess the risk of investing there versus investing in Hong Kong for example, where it is familiar mark, that’s 20 minutes from the home probably. But it’s a 2% or 3% capital. And that’s, of course a much bigger discussion. It’s by country, by city, by location, and etc. But I think that more and more investors are willing to take the bet for those stories. Diversification and better returns.
Darren: That’s good. Yeah, I think it’s good to have a overview understanding because a lot of people are always asking us like, why would you need a portal to find real estate oversea real estate investment? I was like, because you never thought of that. There’s a lot more out there that you just have more options as a whole. So, for your experience, right, I’m sure you’re one of the best people to talk to-
[cut off – break in between, removed 1-2 min of small talk]
So for someone who has your experience right, I’m sure you have a lot of experience with you know, understanding what it takes to invest overseas. So how is it different compared to locally when it comes to the process and what are some things that you should be aware of for investors?
Ariel: Well, of course, in every real estate deal, you need to do pretty significant due diligence. Now, of course, if you live 20-30 minutes an hour away from the asset you will buy, physical due diligence is pretty easy. You just go to the area, and one of the things about real estate which will never go away is that the physical notion, right, a building on the right side of the street might be priced completely different from a building on the left side of the street because of many different reasons, better access, better views, Feng Shui, etc, etc. Right? So being able to see real estate for ourselves is of course, a very important benefit of investing locally. The rest of the due diligence, whether it’s financial due diligence, wonderful converse, models, documents, understanding the title etc, etc. I mean, although trickiest thing, whether you invest in Hong Kong or you invest in somewhere else. And now the really important aspect to take into account, of course, is the actual process and the related taxation. That’s a big thing. When you invest in New York, you’re structuring of taxes for a foreign investor is crucial, because otherwise all your return will be eaten by taxes. It’s not the case in Hong Kong. In Hong Kong, the tax structure it’s much more favorable to investor say, and you don’t need to spend so much time figuring out well, what’s the equal thing to use so and of course that goes by geography. I would say the less transparent the geography like say it’s Vietnam, Cambodia and versus investing in Canada, right? You probably need to do much more due diligence not only on the asset itself, but on title, any regulatory issues, you need to be aware of who’s going to manage your assets? That’s another big thing, right? I mean, I invest with a local partner, or I invest in myself. So, you know, those are all many different components that go into investing in real estate. Now, I would say that the process is not dissimilar, whether investing assets in your local market versus outside, but what you’re hoping for is that you will have channels, trust channels. You can get all that information for the asset estimate abroad, because it’s obviously much easier to get access to information in your local market.
Darren: I think that’s pretty good. I think you do a lot better job than I do when I explain to people the difference between oversea investing and locally so thanks for that, and we’ll copy yours for sure.
Ariel: No problem, any time. That’s why I’m your advisor.
Darren: Exactly, here you go. So you know that this channel, for a lot of people who are watching this a lot of them are Asian investors. And I know that like, you know, there’s a lot of different types of investors, Asian investors, I’ve met one of the many. Through the experience right, can you summarize what the Asian investors are usually like like their appetite and then location wise or certain type of risk and reward that they would like to have?
Ariel: Absolutely. And the thing again, I have a very focused expertise in what they do. So I haven’t covered all the markets. Definitely not globally, but that would give you sort of tidbits of information. So first, Asian investors and I’m talking about private investors family central. They love physical assets, much more than they love structure projects. And I know we’ll get structured products in later questions. What they mean by that they would like to be a part of a deal, investing in hard assets, rather than investing in fun. I mean that vehicles have been a bit popular, more popular in recent years. But I think that from my experience, at least, investors here want access to assets themselves, not to be removed several layers. So that’s number one. I would say in terms of geography I mean I’ve seen here investors who only invest in UK for example, as they pass for diversification. They know UK though obviously Hong Kong and UK have historical ties. They have been in the market for a long time. They don’t need to go to London. It’s not just London, it’s London and secondary cities, their family there. So a lot of people are very comfortable by now, investing in UK, because they just been doing that for a while, have the relationships and understand the tax structure which actually keeps changing but still, again, very comfortable. So they’re not moving from going to other places. Really no matter what the price in the UK is because they just feel it’s a good balance between what they have here and foreigners. There are some investors who prefer much more opportunistic assets, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, have all been kind of the favorite countries in a way for this type of investors. My reservations with that person – again, I’m an investor In real estate on a personal level myself and I run my office, I’m not sure how to quantify the risk, because the rewards is there. I mean, you see if you compare dollar for dollar, and of course, you get the great fortune, right, much better than in an established market. How do you quantify the risk? Again, if I have the right channel, to invest into those economists into those markets, and in all the due diligence I’m doing is, you know, enough or someone, a partner, like a partner on your platform, for example. If I can get that comfort, then I would be much more kin to say, you know, what I would like to allocate a portion of my portfolio in the kind of the more interesting, I would say, countries on the risk reward spectrum. And, of course, the US that was a big theme in the last 10 years, I would say since Global Financial Crisis real estate prices in the US took an unprecedented hit. And of course smart shoe masters saw opportunities, went to the US, the market of more than recovered its until COVID, I would say it’s been doing record absolutely record levels. I’m not sure what will happen now. Because I would say this started grabbing in the last 24 months, Asian investors overall took a break from looking at the US. Again, number of reasons. First of all, I think the US China trade war, sort of, even if it’s not directly affecting real estate, or directly affecting the Hong Kong investors. Some investors get nervous and they want to see how that plays out. Second, pricing again was just too expensive, and then you layer on top the taxation that you have in the US, which is much higher than here in Hong Kong, and it just became too expensive to go halfway around the globe and look for opportunities. And I think we will see how COVID-19 and the fact of real estate will play out. Real estate industry is ___ industry. We haven’t seen it yet. Because for example, retail in the US, took a dramatic hit I mean, just in the last two months with several degrees, all declaring bankruptcy meaning they are going to close shop, meaning you have more vacancies. Now again, retail has been suffering in the US for a while. I think it’s kind of like the last nail in the coffin. Will retail go away forever? Absolutely not. But there will be that restructuring period in the market that I played in New York, again, too early to tell because New York was shut down for two and a half months. And I’m involved in a construction project in New York, which basically construction stopped for almost three months and just now slowly reopened. How will it play out in terms of pricing and opportunities? We’re not sure yet, but it’s a wait and see. But I think to summarize kind of what I just said, again, I cannot touch every country because I don’t have experience in every country. I think that’s when that’s settled, ie., post Covid, I think that individual investors seeking here, whether it’s in Hong Kong or Asia, will be actually more interested to invest in other parts of the world. And whether it’s US whether it’s UK, whether it’s other parts of Europe, Asia, because everyone realized in this crisis, while in this crisis, the diversification is extremely important. And how you diversify in real estate, either you must across asset classes, but probably you need to diversify your job.
Darren: I see that’s a pretty good explanation, I actually want to know because like you cover a couple things, right? Like the recession, the virus spread and all that. And then obviously, your skill set is focusing on New York market, actually, would you mind like, giving the audience more detail about your work in New York? And then, you know, like, obviously, you covered some of your opinion on you know, this whole effect so far. So how would you plan to like, you know, defend or change a little bit or even look at different markets because of right now, where we are at the moment?
Ariel: So for me, it’s a little bit too early to say. I think because of what I mentioned we haven’t seen the dust settle. We haven’t seen valuations change in this world that way, we haven’t seen any distress again yet. I think me personally, the big thing for me is absolutely we need diversification. I’m not sure if my next deal in terms of diversification will be in the US actually, probably not. For the reasons I mentioned, I also worry about the trade war, upcoming elections, taxation. It’s tricky. And However, it’s also a question of really the price and where the market is. So I feel like a lot of investors definitely understand that they need to rethink the diversification strategies more than before, but where will it be where those countries, where those next purchases will be? Everyone is sort of looking for and it’s tricky, right? Because you want to get in at the lowest price. Always especially because everyone has been waiting for some cool down of prices. And that’s a thing globally, for a while. The question is, are you going to go in if New York _______, just an example. valuations don’t bite, whatever 10%-15%. And I’m not saying that this will happen, but just as an example, or, you know, Japan and other markets that a lot of investors from Hong Kong particular have been very interested and very active. Many people already have assets there and will we see sort of another surge of investors going to Tokyo, or going to Japan overall, because that is extremely cheap plus you might be able to see opportunities that you haven’t seen 24 months ago. So I know it’s like, I don’t like not responding directly to the question, but the reality I think we are a bit in that wait and see game.
Darren: I think that’s great because like, I think that all the world class investors that I know so far are very blunt about like, “Hey, you know, the world’s huge, you know, there’s a lot of things to look at. And then there’s no point of, you know, saying that you know everything,” and in fact that I think usually the world class investors are the ones that keep learning, understanding that there are things that they keep learning, understanding what stage they are in. So I think that it’s very refreshing to hear from you because it’s obvious with someone who has experienced like you, you will say out loud, “Hey, you know, it’s too early, you know, there are a lot of thing you need to look at, you never know what’s going to happen.” And then that’s why we have these kinds of channels because you know, there’s so much to learn, the more you learn, you realize there’s so much you don’t know. So I’ll shift a little – Sorry, sorry. Keep going.
Ariel: I just one point that I think is actually very relevant to what you do. I think that, you know, will, at least maybe in the prop tech circles, but but really in the real estate circle as well, one knowledge that post COVID-19 Real Estate will have to innovate much more than before. And innovation is across board, whether it’s the way we invest in real estate, the way revealed, the way we manage real estate. So it’s kind of adhering to the standards now, in terms of social distancing, and cleanliness, etc. And, basically, technology is really our friend, not a disruptive technology only will make it better. And I think that this is a big theme. That’s a thinking thing I would say, that investors are looking at. And then of course, consequentially is what are the geographies and asset classes that will be interesting, taken that technological advances. In other words, I mean, if I’m investing now in a market, which is kind of less developed, but what are my options in terms of I mean, others assets be built for the 21st century, or it’s still a little bit backwards? You know, again, I don’t have answers to this question. But I think that this is definitely sort of those big questions that investors in real estate are asking themselves much more than before.
Darren: It’s something that like is very interesting because it seems like a lot of people are also looking into tech right now in real estate, traditional real estate professionals, which is interesting, right? Because you have been really active with groups like, ULI (UrbanLand Institute) and prop tech space, actually what’s the reason behind that, like, how did you get to that realm, you know, from a traditional background like yours before?
Ariel: I think, as I mentioned, I’m a very active member of Ergamind Institute, and I served as a
senior content advisor for Utiliza Pacific. And I sit on the Hong Kong committee and I’ve been involved. Actually, since Business School since I was a student in New York because the organization for real estate, definitely in the US, and then became a premier organization for real estate professionals here in Asia. When I moved to Asia, you know I was just starting here. I helped to start the Young Leaders Group and I was chair for some time, etc. And that’s been going on for I think the last five years. I’ve been through my role as a very active member of life. I’ve been sort of pushing this agenda of innovation. I mean, what’s next real estate? How do we bring those innovative ideas, real estate to our audience, to the network of real estate professionals across the sector, whether it’s investors, developers, brokers, architects, other service providers, right, so, and I think that the knowledge sharing, and the community building is crucial because, as I learned in the VC world, I think the VC world is much more collaborative, in a way than the traditional real estate; traditional real estate world, you know, everyone’s doing deals, and people don’t collaborate. Don’t get me wrong, and you need a lot of people to make a project success, whether it’s your investment professionals, the leasing brokers, the architects, the designers, of course, the owners, developers, the consultants, etc, etc. And so there is definitely a collaboration on the project level. But in this ____ it goes beyond that. It’s really a community of both the startups and the investors, and I’m trying to work together to push those successful ideas forward. And I think it’s really, really important. For me personally, I think, as a real estate professional to stay connected, and I don’t have answers. I don’t know that yet, but this is why you need a lot of interesting people, either in your industry or in sort of like those parallely becoming my industry as well.
Darren: So, you know, like, it’s interesting, because there are so many real estate platforms or property tech companies, you just happen to pop out, you know, kind of like, sprung out of nowhere for past couple years, and especially recently, right, it’s like in Hong Kong, I think just four to five real estate platform coming out this year. And then obviously mine, but you know, like, I just want to know, do you have any insight or ideas of why recently it’s been a big topic in real estate tech because this is something that I thought years before going into industry, I thought that this industry should be innovating years ago. But it’s only around now it’s when the whole industrys really starting, it’s like the little seeds just started sprouting a little bit. Do you have any viewpoints on that?
Ariel: I think particularly for Hong Kong, I think that there are a lot of really innovative people here. But on the real estate side, real estate has been having such a great run until last year. It’s almost that you didn’t need to innovate, I mean, as an owner in collecting rental checks, and everything was as normal. But I think the events of the last sort of 18 months shows that, well, we need to rethink how we look at our real estate. Again, technology, in my opinion, also get a little bit of a bad name with some of the owners or operators because, you know, we work for example, I mean that the builders disrupt of course, we’ll know what happened when we work, but you know, there is a lot of real estate industry that doesn’t like disruption. But technology in real estate doesn’t really bring disruption. It only brings wait for it brings collaboration, it brings ability to actually manage your assets better to understand what you have in your portfolio in a much better way to invest better, to, again, save costs, which is great. As a real estate investor, all I care about is really the bottom line of my asset. And if technology helps me to improve the bottom line, I’m interested. Right, and I think that back to sort of just a bit of a sidetrack to a question, but I think that what’s happened in the last, I’d say 18 months, there’s more and more discussion. In the real estate industry, well, we need to do something. We need to innovate. I think that COVID actually accelerated that on many levels. That’s why I think you see enough people now are doing more interesting things in real estate and trying to sort of figure out what is the next thing? What are the opportunities?
And the thing is you are coming out to talk about it with your platform at the right time, because people will be more willing to diversify. And I think that a lot of investors, I would say five years ago, I don’t think the market overall the Asian market was ready to invest in online platforms. I think that now people are more ready. Again, I cannot guarantee how many will be actually using the platform but you see my point, I think that it’s investor education.
Darren: I see. So you know, like, I know that you’d be working on several things before like Aqua Capital, Adam Assets. And I think that we chatted before, you know, you were thinking about having a prop tech fund or something like that. So how would you think all these tie together in terms of like, you know, moving forward?
Ariel: Well, I think for me, it’s natural progression really, I think that real estate will become more and more of an technology or technology savvy industry because it seems to die in this stage. So for me, you know, I’ve been always very passionate about real estate and about physical assets. And what’s interesting for me is how we make physical assets more compatible in a way with our smartphones, with our tablets, because we live digital lives, right, but how those digital lives connect to the physical space. And we met you know around those opportunites are so for me again I think it’s time for sort of an Asian based platform. It’s a VC platform, ideal platform, investing in startups only focused on prop tech. And there are a couple of platforms already but the thing is we’re still in early stages. It’s sort of an – natural progression how do I combine my personal investment experience really, the physical and the digital and bring them together?
Darren: I think that’s good because I already see that kind of merging together. And then, you know, you can say different businesses but the thing is in one, they’re just different kind of focuses. So what kind of take away would you like the audience to have from this video?
Ariel: Well, I think you know, what you like the audience to take away one of several things, I would say Prop tech and technology in real estate is huge. I think that now is the time to explore all the different options. Again, prop tech is a vast, vast industry. You and I talked about it many times. Yeah. I mean, I think what’s relevant is what are the solutions for the real estate investment development units. It can make them invest better, develop faster. Again, focus on the bottom line. What will help owners, operators, developers matters, and to stay competitive, right. I think another takeaway is that real estate investing in real estate growth is also probably here to stay and this trend will accelerate. Now, what I hope to see from your platform is that it’s a really a way for investors situated in Hong Kong learn about all those different markets that you will have, and seeing you know what, “actually, I’m feeling comfortable for this particular channel, I can do it.” And I feel comfortable, I understand my risks, and my rewards, etc, etc. And I think that again, diversification is a big theme right now, not just in real estate but anywhere in portfolio composition. And because the market overall is predictable.
Darren: So, like, so for people who wants to know more about, you know, obviously, oversea real estate investing, or for example, let’s say an US market that you’re familiar with, and also for prop tech, how would we suggest them to reach out to you and talk to you further more about it.
Ariel: Well, they can – I’m not sure how you’re doing it through a platform and you can always reach out to me, again, through your platform because you have those, the advisor section and I’m always happy to connect with people interested in pretty much anything we talked about. Because again through my experience on the VC side, I think that community is although a bit of an overused word, but a very important word for us to learn from each other. Especially in this day and age.
Darren: Yeah, for sure. And obviously I’ll include all your contact information in the show notes, people can reach out to you and then I want to say thanks a lot and you play a really key part for how Denzity is becoming what it is today and then continuously I really hope that I keep learning from you because you know, a lot of times I’m not in my basement and then working a lot and asking you about advice about real estate investing overseas, and about the pin point that investors have to go through, more important thing how to innovate personally, I want to say thank you through this medium because I never really properly thanked you for that.
Ariel: No, thank you so much for that. And I mean, I’m excited for you guys. You know, you and I’ve been talking for a while. As I said five years ago, might be too early. Now, I think it’s exactly the right time. So you just need to capture the market properly.
Darren: Yeah, for sure. And then so yeah, I actually want to do a second part next time. We want to have a longer form to dive deeper about your experience because I think a lot of people that not only the audience’s, but also in terms of like myself and others I know always talk about how they want to know what it takes to be one of the best real estate investors. Obviously, you are one of the very well known investors and you’re really humble about it. So thanks a lot again for your time. And let’s do this another time.
Ariel: No problem. Thank you Darren.
Darren: Yeah, have a great day. Thank you.
Ariel: Bye, thank you everyone.
Ariel：當然。所以我叫Ariel Shtarkman，我來自以色列。我在香港已經12年了。我的職業生涯始於紐約的房地產方向和房地產私募股權哥倫比亞商學院（Columbia Business School）畢業後，我所在的基金於2008年將我調到這裡，在房地產、私募股權領域獲得了一個非常令人興奮的職位。當然，我們都是知道2008年底和2009年底發生了什麼。所以，一場金融危機發生了我非常幸運，我來到香港的花旗銀行，在花旗銀行和一些職位上，我幫助重組了一些特殊情况房地產交易。我參與了結構性融資團隊，主要為亞洲各地的房地產公司安排債務融資。幾年前，我想走自己的路，一直想成為一名企業家。所以我自己創業了，實際上，有幾項業務，如果你願意的話，我是房地產投資者，我在香港有一個資產組合，實際上幾年前就賣了，我一直在尋找更有趣的機會。我在紐約西部的房地產有一家獨立的公司，在那裡有亞洲家族理財辦公室。儘管這些交易更多的是緊密俱樂部投資，但私募股權類型的交易屬於紐約類別。最後，在過去的36個月裏，我真的開始越來越多地參與到房地產科技領域。首先，我很有興趣瞭解科技和創新將如何改變我們真正的傳統產業。作為一個學識淵博的人我意識到要真正理解科技和房地產是如何融合的，唯一的辦法就是自己成為一名投資者。所以我是幾家公司的天使投資人房地產科技創業公司。在我所有的天使投資風險投資中，我只關注房地產科技，我們可以更多地討論我是什麼樣的機會正在尋找。但是，嗯，我想說，在過去的一年裏，這已經成為我所做工作的一個更大的部分，不管是不是經常會見初創企業、其他投資者，瞭解生態系統以及我們如何推動房地產創新。
Darren ：這是一件非常有趣的事情，因為現在似乎很多人也在研究房地產領域的科技，傳統的房地產專業人士，這很有趣，對吧？因為你在ULI（UrbanLand Institute）和房地產科技界組織非常活躍，實際上，背後的原因是什麼，比如，怎麼做到的你知道嗎，你是從你以前的傳統背景進入這個領域的？
Ariel：我想，正如我所提到的，我是Urban Land Institute的一名非常活躍的成員，我
Darren ：我明白了。所以你知道，比如，我知道你之前會做一些事情，比如Atom Capital，Atom Assets。我想我們之前聊過，你知道，你在考慮建立一個房地產科技基金之類的。你會怎麼想你們都知道嗎？
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