Denzity Insights Transcript: Surveyor 101 with Tom Parker


Surveyor 101 with Tom Parker

Connect with Tom:

Website: https://www2.colliers.com/en-hk/experts/tom-parker

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-parker-mrics-924407a5/

Email: [email protected]

The surveyor plays an essential role, but a lot of real estate investors do not fully understand their work. Today, we have Tom to tell us more about it.

Tom is a Chartered Surveyor at Colliers International Hong Kong. He works within the Valuation and Advisory Services department where he is responsible for providing property valuation and consultancy advice to institutional and private investors across Asia. 

  • What are the key roles of a surveyor?
  • What are the different types of surveyors?
  • How do surveyors impact an investment?
  • Why is it necessary to engage with one?

As it can be difficult to catch some minor errors, transcripts may contain a few typos or inaccuracies.

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Alright, let’s get back to the transcript of the show. Enjoy!

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Darren: Hey, Tom.

Tom: Hey, Darren, how’s it going?

Darren: It’s good. Good. Thanks for coming in, because I think I met you, I think last year, close to last year. And there were happy hour drinks with a bunch of people in our industry. And last month, again, I met you with my friend Gary. And it’s great to talk about, you know, our work. And something that I really want to know as a surveyor, because to give you my background before I used to work in real estate funds so the only time that I worked with a surveyor is for Appraisal. But then obviously for developments, for other works that tend to be more and given different surveyors. So this episode is explored more on that kind of subject. And so thanks for coming in and I hope this is a blast for all of us.

Tom: Brilliant, thank you for having me and yeah looking forward to it.

Darren: Yeah, well, for the audience who might not know who you are, would you mind telling them your background and a bit about yourself?

Tom: Yeah, absolutely. So, hey, everyone. My name’s Tom Parker. I’m a manager in the Federation Advisory Services at Colliers in Hong Kong. I’ve been working in Hong Kong for close to two years now. Previously, I was working in the United Kingdom, where I began work in 2011. So I’m a chartered surveyor. So that means I’m a member of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors and I’m an RICS registered buyer as well. So most of my work essentially involves carrying out evaluation and advisory projects across Asia. So not just limited to Hong Kong, I still do some work in the United Kingdom as well. So it’s a fairly global remit. But essentially the main role I have is helping clients make investment decisions, helping them manage their portfolio, effectively, making sure they’re getting the right advice to make these decisions.

Darren: I see well so for the audience and myself who are not familiar with surveyors and appraisals, would you mind telling the audience a broad intro of the concept and what they do?

Tom: Sure. So essentially, appraisal is a function of a surveyor. So you can have surveyors for various different roles. There are surveyors who appraise arts and antiquities, there are surveyors who will measure land surveyors who be involved in the construction of projects. They’ll look at building defects, they’ll estimate building costs, what building materials are required. But most surveys generally, if you hear the term general practice surveyor, they’re typically property surveyors and normally commercial surveyors as well. So one of our roles is appraisal. And then alongside that, we’ll also do landlord and tenant work, we’ll do agency work as well. So we perform the full function. Appraisal is essentially giving a value for property or building at a certain point in time. So that’s one of the many roles we can fulfill.

Darren: So, yeah, I’m like living under a rock so there are a lot of questions I have regarding this subject. So before anything, right would you mind because just now you mentioned that there’s commercial surveyors, there’s a residential surveyor, what other types are there? And then what are the types that a new real estate investor tends to work with?

Tom: Okay, so the easiest thing to do is to split into three different pathways. So there’s property surveyors. There are land surveyors. And then there are art and antiquity surveyors. So the art and antiquities is quite a small arm. It’s a fairly niche part of surveying. And they’ll essentially look at the fine art, give values for fine art. They’ll appraise the additional value if it’s fine art at all, for instance, one example could be, I’m from southwest England, you may have heard of the graffiti artist Banksy.

Darren: Yeah.

Tom: Properties that have a Banksy on them, which a few do in Bristol, that can have a major impact on the value of that property. So we’ve seen vast differences between properties that have the Banksy on and the one next to it doesn’t. So that’s one side of things. Then the land surveyors, they will typically they’re the people you often see out on the street. They’ve got the tripods. They’ve got the cameras. They’re looking at distances. They’re looking at different heights of land. That’s how surveyors originally came about so that was that. A primary role, hence the term surveyors, it was surveying land, say, maps that you see produce. Where you see the contour lines. Where you see the heights of mountains. That was work originally produced by surveyors. That, too, is still quite a – it’s become much more of a niche part of surveying. So typically when someone says I’m a surveyor, I’m a chartered surveyor, they’ll be talking about property surveying and then we can split that into commercial, which is four sites. I generally look at commercial buildings, that’s offices, shops, industrial properties could be things like hospitals, schools as well. Then there will be residential space and then you’ll also have real surveyors as well. You don’t see them as often in Hong Kong. Fairly common in the UK and they will look predominately at farmland. They will work on the sale of large tracts of land. They’ll also look at alternative energy projects as well. Power stations that sort of work. And then there’s building in quantity surveyors as well. So a building surveyor is someone who you would call if you’re looking to buy a building, but you want to know, does this property have any defects? If I buy it today, how much money am I likely to be spending over the next five to ten years? I’m keeping this property up to standards. And then there’s quantity surveyors as well. And they generally work with long construction projects. And their job is to say, okay, to complete this project, you will need X number of bricks, certain amount of time. So they’ll work alongside the costing of a project to make sure all the materials are delivered on time. And you know exactly how much it’s going to cost. Now generally the main thing is commercial space.

Darren: Obviously, because in real estate surveying obviously has a very important role, which I’ll go into detail later on. And then just I think a lot of people, when they think about surveying, it works closely with conveyancing. Would you mind explaining it as well on the conveyancing as surveryors role in the process?

Tom: You see, conveying is essentially buying and selling assets. So a surveyor, you don’t need to have a surveyor to work with you to buy or sell land, but I would say it would be highly recommended. And there’s a number of reasons why. So if you bring a surveyor in when you’re looking to buy or sell a piece of land in the first instance, their role will be purely advisory. So you could say, look, I’m interested in disposing of this property. Can you come in and have a look at it? And a surveyor can come in and the first and they can do is give you an appraised of the value of the property. So at that stage, you know, straightaway, “Okay, my building is worth X million Hong Kong dollars.” So you’ve got a good idea of what you should be to sell it for in the market so you can have a fair degree of confidence when you do get an offer as to whether that represents market value or not. Another role for them may be to have them work with you to look at whether a dispose of this is in your best interests at that time. So you may say, okay, we’re looking to dispose this property in the next six months, but the surveyor might come on board and say, well, actually, have you considered this? And that could be a multitude of reasons why selling the property at that particular time isn’t in their best interests. So the surveyor should be able to work with them to help them come up with a much more fought out and structured disposal program. Then it comes onto the technical side of things. So a lot of the work that we still do is agency based. So we would represent the particular seller to help them find a buyer for the property. And that would involve not just finding the buyer, but also ensuring the terms upon which the sale is agreed, “Are they best suited to the seller and the best terms that they can get?” So that helps them know that they’re getting – so they’ll be getting their advice all the way through the process. Then when it comes onto the actual legal side of the conveyancing, the surveyor will work with their client alongside the solicitors to make sure that the client is getting real estate specific advice. So although a lot of solicitors are most solicitors will have a fair degree of knowledge in real estate when it comes down to some of the more technical aspects of real estate, it still pays to have a surveyor there in your corner to help you understand what it might mean for you if you agree to a certain term, what a certain clause may mean to make sure you’re fully clued up for about the process. And I think they can add the value that perhaps the solicitor can’t do in that instance.

Darren: I see. Because, like, it seems like a very technical work when I listen to it and everything it seems like it requires a lot of studying, a lot of experience, a lot of insights that a lot of people in the real estate industry might not even know. So what do you need to become a surveyor and what kind of license do you need to be one?

Tom: Again, this depends on what sort of survey you want to be and which professional background, which professional body you want to be a member of. So typically the term surveyor sits alongside the term charter surveyor. So if someone says to you, I’m a chartered surveyor or if you see the designation MRCS FRCS after their name, that will mean they’re a member of the institution of charters. So this was the original professional body. It was founded, I think it was founded in 1868 so it’s a fairly old body, take you back quite a long way. So to become a member of the RICS, first we have to do a RICS accredited degree. Now, this is something I think a lot of people who are looking to go into real estate don’t always realize straight away. So it’s something I didn’t realize myself. So my undergraduate degree was in geography. Well, actually, if you want to become a chartered surveyor and you want to do it as quickly as possible, you need to do an accredited degree. So I then did the master’s degree in real estate in order to get that Rik’s accreditation. Once you’ve got that, then you then need to find a job. So you’ll start off as a graduate surveyor. And typically graduate surveyors will work within different departments at the business so they can see, do I want to work in valuations? Do I want to work on professional advisory? Do I want to work for an agency? They’ll have the chance to explore different areas of business. And then as they’re doing this, they’ll be building up – we call it an APC diary. So the APC is an Assessment’s Professional Competence. And your diary is something you fill in as you’re going. So you have to do this over two years. And at the end of the two years, you can do your APC, the Assessment Professional Competence. And that consists of an interview and a presentation. And within that interview, the assessors will decide, does this person demonstrate the professional and ethical standards in order to become a chartered surveyor? So if you do fantastic, that’s great. You’ve passed and you become a Chartered Surveyor. The other route, and this is something that’s open to people who don’t perhaps have professional experience, sorry who don’t have the accredited degree is the professional experience route. So this would allow someone who’s accumulated a certain number of years of professional experience the chance to go straight through to the interview process. So a panel can then decide whether they have enough experience to date, whether they’ve got the qualities required. There’s different routes and not having an RICS degree is not necessarily the end of it but for younger people coming into the industry, it’s the quickest and the easiest way to become chartered.

Darren: That actually sounds like a lot of work. When you say it out loud, I’m just like, “Wow, I’m just really happy that I didn’t have to go through that path because I know it’s a technical.” I’m not someone that like you kind of just read some books and just know how it works. And it does require a lot of particularist experience and study and to be really good at one. So, you know, it’s something that is a very, I wouldn’t say rough, it’s more like it’s an interesting pathway, I would say, in the real estate sector. So it’s kind of cool. So, you know, like obviously this show, I’m sure you’re aware, is for investors or people who want to understand real estate, learn more about investing overseas or locally, and what’s the best way of the whole process. So there’s something that I want to know your point of view on is that what are some potential risk for real estate investors when they neglect engaging with their surveyors? You know, because just now, I think the question we mentioned before is that, you know, in some process, you’ll have to have one. But then it’ll be very important to be as advisors or having a longer team to help you out. So I would like to have your opinion on that.

Tom: Yes, sure. So for me, investment or good investment is about de-risking yourself as much as possible. Typically, for less risky investments, say, putting your money in a high interest yielding account, that’s a fairly low risk investment. So your level of return is going to be pretty low as well. We’re talking maybe one percent possibly. With real estate, you can typically get a yield. Yields in Hong Kong are very light. But still, you’d be looking at the moment to get a yield of around between 2.5% through to 10% plus. Now, the higher the yield, the higher the level of risk is. But if you want to try and really understand that investment, I would say the best thing to do is to bring on board a professional advisor. So this should be someone who’s familiar with the local market, who’s familiar with the property type and who can give you a fair appraisal of that particular investment. So, for instance, maybe we have a client – hypothetical situation we have a client who’s looking to acquire a property in Thailand. Now they may look at the properties and think, “This is great. It’s offering us 9.5% yield every year. It looks like it’s led to some good tenants. It’s a nice new building. Where does that go wrong?” Well, actually, there’s quite a lot that can go wrong. A surveyor at the initial stage, they get to look at that property for you and look at what’s happened in the area around the property. For instance, it may be there’s some serious infrastructure works going on that will affect accessibilities for that property over the next couple of years. If you look at the tenant profile, they may have that market knowledge vacant advisor and say, “hey, your anchor tenant has been in the market for the past six months looking for a new property.” Now, that’s information that you wouldn’t normally have unless you start to speak to a professional. Now, if you speak to a general estate agent, they may tell you things like this in order to try and persuade you to either buy the property or not buy it. If you’re engaging a surveyor and you’re engaging a professional, you should be able to rely on that information much more. As you know, the surveyor doesn’t have a hidden agenda. They make it very clear to you at the start. If they’ve got a conflict of interest or not, if they have, they shouldn’t be acting for you. But normally they won’t if they’re active for you. So you can be confident that they’re giving you unbiased and independent advice. So that can help you formulate the strategy for acquiring a property. So you may look at it now and say, “Okay, 40% the property could be vacant in the next 18 months, what’s going on in the market?” And the surveyor would be able to work with them and say, well, actually, inquiries have dropped down by 20% over the past six months. We’re seeing rents falling and they’ve fallen over the past few quarters by around 5% que on que, and our projection is they’ll continue to fall as well over the next couple of quarters. So you can start to build up much more of a detailed method statement for getting ahead the investments or not. And that enables you to do a proper appraisal. And it may be that once you build in the void periods, once you build in the rental decline, once you build in all the other factors, once you’ve come up with a final figure, the surveyor might say, well, actually you’re looking at this property for $10 million baht. Actually, we only consider the property is worth $7 million baht, particularly if you want to achieve your your 8-9% yield. So it’s it’s helping you to derisk the investment. There’s other roles a surveyor could fulfill as well. So you maybe you employ a building surveyor alongside your commercial surveyor. And the building surveyor might say, well, I’ve had a look at the, I’ve had a look at the construction and there’s a couple of hazardous materials within the building or there’s a couple of inherent defects within the building. And whilst it may not be an issue at the moment, over the next five to 10 years, this may become much more of an issue and may require a significant level of capital expenditure to resolve. So it’s looking longer term as well and looking at what your costs are going to be over that period. So you can see initially an investor may look at the investment and think this is fantastic, but then if they drill down a little bit more, they may start to see some of the issues, some of the hidden costs and some of the some of the things they’re going to have to overcome over the next few years. So for me, it is about giving the investor all the information they need in order to make us as clear and as transparent decision as possible. And that’s really the value of a surveyor. And I’ve seen so many instances where people have gone to buy property and haven’t been properly informed about the property, haven’t taken the right advice and it’s it’s come back to hurt them further down the line. They’re not making as much money as they could have done or they’re ending up losing money.

Darren: For sure. I think something that people it’s like, you know, if you floss every day; people know that they just keep forgetting it. So obviously, hopefully this type of video will help people to remind them that, hey, maybe you should consider engaging with one or having some one on your team to have better decision making. And then so I’ll switch back to something you’re more familiar with the commercial setting right. What kind of role can surveyors do to impact with investments?

Tom: See, there’s, obviously, the initial work they’ll do before you’re looking to buy the property, which we just covered. And then there’s the ongoing management of the property as well. So a surveyor or surveying firm, because you’ll be using different arms or different types of surveyors to do this work, will be able to manage the property for you. They’ll be able to find new tenants. They’ll be here to give you advice on what’s happening elsewhere in the market. For instance, have similar buildings sold recently. Are you seeing certain tenants looking to move around? What’s going on in the market? It will help you to to really understand what’s going on and really give you that information you need to make detailed decisions. So when it comes to when it comes to board meetings, you’ve got to be very clear, very concise details to have exact to what’s happening. So you can make the best possible decisions. One of the roles but is often blurred with an estate agent is on the agency side of things. Using a surveyor for the agency is very different to using an estate agent. First of all, about the additional professional and ethical requirements that a surveyor has, they can’t act for you or they can’t do work if there’s a conflict of interest. So, you know, everything they’re doing for you is going to be in your absolute best interests. And the advice they’re giving you is not to make you make a decision. It’s not for them to make to make a quick dollar from you. It’s for you to make the best possible decisions. I think really for me, that is the fundamental quality of a surveyor. And the reason why people should continue to engage with surveyors is that level of trust and that level of transparency.

Darren: I see, you know, obviously throughout the questions so far, you kind of listed out a couple of ways that surveyors can help. Would you mind because like a lot of people, might need some explanation of how to walk through and everything. Would you mind doing a walk through on one or two scenarios on how and why people need to engage with surveyors and let’s say a fund or, you know, someone who’s got a family office or something like that.

Tom: Okay, so I guess one example could be there’s a fund who have several commercial office buildings. They are looking at what they should do with these properties. Should they hold on to them? Should they sell them? If they sell them, should they sell one or two or should they sell the whole thing? So I would say if you’re ever in this position, the best thing you can do is speak to a surveyor straightaway. The surveyor will be able to come in and provide that information for you. It’s the way that would work initially, I’d say the best thing you could do at this stage is or the initial step would be to get a full appraisal done of all the properties. So that should enable the fund to say, okay, these are our properties. This is what they would be worth if we were to sell them in the current market. So that enables you to look at what the potential returns are if you were to sell the property. The second stage, I would say, would be to undertake a full market, a market appraisal, sort of to look at what’s going on in the market, to look at what else is available. So the surveyor could work with them to say, well, if you sold these properties, you would potentially have a large amount of capital that you’d be looking to redeploy. Now, you could look to redeploy that in the local market. And we’ve identified a couple of opportunities for you. And they’ll be given a list of properties and details on the potential return. Details on what we consider the risks that those particular investments are, how we see that property evolving over time. So do we see it possibly being under the threat of high levels of vacancy? Do we see new buildings being built around it that could perhaps access competition so that should then enable the fund to say, “Well okay, well, if we do sell, this is what we could buy instead.” And that could be extended not just to the local market, but also to a more international scale as well. So it may be a fund asking us in Hong Kong to look at this for them. And we say, well, have you considered investment in Malaysia? And we could connect them with our experts in that part of the world who would then be able to help them see what’s available in that market as well. So it’s about giving them. We’re not telling them which decision to make. We’re giving them the data. We’re giving them the information they need in order to start making these decisions. Now, coming back to the valuation side of things within the valuation report, as well we will typically give advice on what could be done within the property in order to help preserve its value or improve its value. So one of the things we might say is the current average lease term is fairly short. So if we sell the property and you can only say what the current level of income is guaranteed for the next six months, that immediately starts to ring alarm bells for investors. Whereas if we could say to them, if you extended that from, say, at the moment, the average lease time is two years, if we extend some of these key tenants, look to tie them into new leases and perhaps tie them down for longer period maybe up to three years that could have this impact upon your overall value. It may even be that you could offer them a rental discount to get them to sign a longer lease. And that would still increase the value because it’s increasing the level of security investors would have about the level of income. So it’s helping them there to position the assets as well. So say if you did dispose of this asset, this is how you could make sure it’s in the best possible position in the market to achieve the highest possible price. Then if you do say, right, that’s it. We want to sell these two properties. Then you could bring this surveyor back in again to help you sell the property. So that would be a case of producing a suitable marketing program, sending it to various parties who they may know are currently in the market and helping the seller to achieve the best possible price for the property. Then once that’s done, they could work with them again in terms of where do we move the money now? What do we sink this capital into? So it is about providing them with all the advice and guidance and making sure that they’ve got all the information they need to make the decision first of all and then making sure that any decision they do make, they’ve been given the advice to make sure they’re positioning themselves in the best possible place so that they’re achieving the best, the best possible result they can. Now, there’s other roles that the surveyor could do as well in terms of looking at redevelopment, looking at what upcoming works required. The redevelopment tango in Hong Kong is always an interesting one. A number of buildings could be redeveloped to achieve a higher sale price. And that may also be something the client hasn’t initially considered but it could be something we give to them. So say actually, your property’s worth two billion Hong Kong dollars at the moment. However, you’ve got an opportunity to redevelop this asset and there’s a building that’s recently redeveloped just across the street, similar size, and that’s now worth four and a half billion Hong Kong dollars. So maybe they then work with them on the redevelopment to that asset so that they’ve got the best possible. They’ve maximized the value of that of that particular property.

Darren: I think you did a great job of painting the whole picture, because now, I’m sure everyone will be like now I understand the differences and then it sounds like you are also the investors very close alliance to like how to make the asset better, investment better and think better. And obviously, the decision making is still on the investors point of view. But you’re there to support them in every single journey. So you did a very good picture painting of what you do and what surveyors do as a whole, how does the industry evolved over the years? And then you know we both understand Property Tech and the power of it. What’s your view on how technology can change the whole landscape of it?

Tom: So just to give a bit of a brief history and in terms of our profession. So Surveryors actually the first use of the term surveyor was actually found in ancient Egypt. So surveyors worked back in Egyptian times. They helped to map the land when the Nile would flood each year. And then when the flood waters receded, they helped to map who or which particular farmer would have which particular parcel of land. So that’s how surveying started. And then even probably up till 200 years ago, that was still the main role of surveyors. It was about mapping land. And it was about registering ownership. Now, when the industrial revolution happened and you saw more more commercial buildings. So up until that point, you had shops sure, but typically, a shop was the ground floor of someone’s house. You didn’t really have factory buildings. You’d have farms, but no factories. And the concept of an office was still fairly, fairly abstract at that point. So when the industrial revolution happened, you started seeing much more in the way of development of commercial buildings. And then surveying evolved as well to meet the needs of the owners of these buildings. So at first, factories, offices, they would be developed by whoever it was who would one day occupy the building, but then they started realizing, okay actually, we want to move to a larger factory, but I would like to hold onto this one and try and find a new tenant. And that’s where surveying really started to change and become much more transactional, much more advisory in that regard as well. And that was really the birth of commercial surveying. Now, as an industry, surveying has been fairly slow to adapt to technological changes. From a boss who used to take great pleasure in telling me about how the standard day would start, they’d all sit around in the mayor room for two hours opening letters. And a number of my former colleagues, particularly older ones, they would still most of the work they did was on pen and paper. They still like to use tape measures, measure rods. They hadn’t moved on to perhaps a bit more I’d say recent developments. But actually, the likes of laser measures, computer aided design, that’s been around for a long time. But still, there’s been a reluctance particularly among our oldest surveyors to properly embrace that. We still see it today. I’d say, in terms of the use of technology, surveying is is behind many other sectors. Now, I’m not sure exactly what the reasons for this are. And I have to say as well in Hong Kong, it seems to be a particular problems. I’d say Hong Kong perhaps hasn’t fully embraced all the changes in the same way as some of the other parts of the world have. But going forward, I think technology has huge potential to severely disrupt our industry. So we’ve been looking at this a lot lately, say, for appraisal, one of the things you can start seeing a lot more of and you start to see in other parts of the world is automated valuation models. So these are essentially what you would do you’ll see on a lot of Websites, you can get free one done, you just put in your property address and details and it gives you a rough value where the automated variation models taken that a couple of steps further. So, again, you give all the details about your property and then within, say, 10 minutes, it can give you a fairly accurate valuation. So I’ve seen reports saying that they’ve managed to get the automated vibration models through in 95% accuracy. I’m not disputing that and I think that certainly will start to happen more. But that technology is still catching up. It’s still trying to fully incorporate all the all the subtleties that perhaps you need in order to appraise the value of a property. But that’s going to severely change the way we value properties. And for investors, instead of bringing on board a firm of surveyors to do the evaluation for them in say, two weeks, if they could get a figure of in 10 minutes and minimizing all these human errors, that’s got to be a major attraction. The other side of it is we’ve agency. So we’ve seen the rise of virtual agents. So at the moment, these don’t take on any physical form. It’s entirely, entirely based online. But I’ve seen some places where you go out and you have the virtual agent on your phone and you can say, “Oh, hey, what did what did this property sell for next door?” And the virtual agent will be equipped of all the with all the transaction information that’s available. Everything that you’re able to build into that database and they can say, oh, this property sold last year for this price. Now, normally, if you go in the command of property, whoever is showing you around should be able to tell you roughly what properties will sell for next door. But to have this service, to have someone who’s got all the information on hand, every single transaction you’ve got records of, that is incredibly valuable. And these electronic agents, they’re available 24/7. They have a 100% callback records. So really, that’s going to change massively how we buy and sell property. Now, does that mean the end of people like me, humans surveyors? No, absolutely not. I certainly hope not. I think there’s still real estate. Real estate is very much relationship driven still. And I think always will be. So I think these technological changes will help to compliment the industry and they will help to improve our standards as well. They’ll help us to minimize some of our errors, they’ll help us to become more efficient. But as far as valuation gaze, yes, a large part of valuation is scientific, but also valuation is still very much an art as well. And I’m not sure a computer model will therefore be able to fully capture that. They might do. But my thoughts of it is that they won’t. So I think that there will always be a role for human surveyors but certainly technology has enormous potential to change the industry as we know it.

Darren: Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of similar products to facilitate a surveyor like AVM, for example, like I remember when I heard about it, I was like “this is too good to be true.” But a lot of people in the industry would think that, hey, some market you can do AVM. Not all of them. And not all the asset class, you know, commercial there’s not much comparables besides it. Residential’s are easier but even rezoning or a new development is still going to be very different. At the same time, there’s drill and everything. but I believe that a surveyor is kind of like, there’s so many neurons, you can’t just have a computer and say, hey, it’s the best outcome. I believe there are more neurons that sometimes it’s not part of that which comes – because our mutual friend Gary has startup called inflow. And so I saw a guest post on it about the global measuring standard. And sorry about that, National Property Management’s standards, sorry about that and then would you mind explaining to the audience what that’s about, because I’m very new to it and it seems like a very big topic in the industry.

Tom: Yes. Absolutely. First off, I’ll just touch briefly on what you just said as well about AVM would work better in certain markets in Hong Kong, we’re very lucky. The market is very transparent. There’s a lot of comparable information around. Same in other markets, Australia, the United Kingdom as well. Very transparent markets in some of the less transparent markets like the Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma. It’s much harder to find any comparable information at all. And even if you did, you can’t be that confident with it. You should never take comparative information you can find for these sort of markets and rely upon it. So that’s where again, it has potential. It has potential but there’s still a lot of issues. Then leading on to your next question about the international property measurement standards. I’ll refer to it as IPMS for short. Less of a mouthful, but that really is about transparency again and the information that’s available in the market. So before globalization, I’d say it didn’t matter as much different markets would have certain measurement standards and ways of measurement buildings they used. And it was fine because normally you didn’t need to know about other countries, other markets in as much detail as you do today. The issue we have now is if you’re in charge of the directive, the real state director for a large multinational company, you’re in charge of properties located all across the world. And if you’re comparing a property, typically what we one of the first things to look at with real estate is how big is it? How many square feet is it? How much is it worth per square foot? What can I rent it for per square foot, even down to what other running costs and typically running costs will be expressed, you might say it’s $30 US dollars a square meter to run this particular building. Everything is brought back to size. How much space do you need? It comes down to square feet again. But one of the issues we found and this was discovered probably relatively recently was only around 10, 15 years ago. But they looked at – they took the same office building, exactly the same floor plate. And they had various professionals from across the world try to measure the building and say how big that building was. And what they found is there was a 25% difference in unquoted areas between these professionals, which is enormous, it’s really enormous. And how can you make a decision about real estate and about property if you don’t even have the most basic of information available to enable you to do that. And what we were finding in the market is someone will come to us and they’d say, okay, we have 100 people, and in the UK we occupy one person per hundred square feet. So this is how much space we need. But then when you come down to looking for space, it may be that the UK is measured 25% larger than the market you’re looking at. So you may end up actually taking a space which is 25% too small. And we’ve seen that become an issue. And you see it is costly for businesses because they can’t fit all their staff into the office from the start and then they end up having to move once so they’ve spent all the money going into the office, and then they can only be there for one lease term before they have to move on to find a better, a larger building. So to help them with their decision making to make an even playing field, the idea of having a truly global measuring standard was introduced and it began life solely with offices from January 2016. So we haven’t seen huge uptake so far. But it’s certainly something if you speak to a Chartered Surveyor, it’s something they will be very familiar with and a chartered surveyor should be able to give you the area of building using the IPMS assets, so they should be able to look at both your buildings in different countries and give you a consistent measuring standard that you can then use to make decisions from. Now one of the reasons I think this is important for Hong Kong as well when it comes to finding office space in Hong Kong, you can very quickly become confused about what basis of measurement the landlord is using. You’ll see some landlords stating this office is 10 000 square feet gross. This is 10 000 square foot letter Bo. This is 10 000 square foot on whatever basis of measurement they want to use. This is fairly unique to Hong Kong in most other markets. All the landlords who use the same basis of measurement may not necessarily use IPMS, but they will use the same basis of measurement. But in Hong Kong, it can be very difficult to compare certain buildings because they’ve been measured in a different way. And this trips up a lot of occupiers here as well, because they might say, well, we looked at 10 000 square foot in this building, so it’s got to be the same in this building. Now, it all depends on what basis of measurement they’ve used. And you may think because you’re given the rent, they might say this is HK$20 a square foot. This building is HK$100 per square foot and think oh great this ones the cheaper building, but actually, it might not be. You may be paying more for the space you’re actually physically able to use because of the basis measurement they’ve used. So really IPMS is about improving transparency, letting occupier’s and letting decision makers see exactly how much space they actually have in the building. So it is a very important step.

Darren: I see, So it sounds like a very important thing to do, right? So let’s say if you have a big, you know, a broadcast or a voice through the whole industry, right, how would you tell them about how this standard can impact the industry? And I want to ask you more about why you think it;s not implemented yet? Because it sounds like something that from a surveyor point of view, it sounds very logical even when I heard a whole description of it, it sounds very logical so far but how come it hasn’t been taken so far?

Tom: Yes so I think that the IPMS is an initiative. So people who perhaps aren’t RICS members initially at first will be like oh it doesn’t apply to me, I don’t need to use this. And even people who are RICS members as well. It can be very difficult at the moment still to implement it. And a lot of that comes down to education. So a lot of clients will say we’ve always used this basis of measurement, it’s going to be very difficult for us to explain to our investors why the area has suddenly changed and you’re now telling me the property is 10% smaller than we believed it was. So that’s the difficulty. And I think that’s one of the roles as surveyors is to help raise the awareness of this among our clients and to show them the benefits of it, to help them feel more comfortable perhaps with utilizing it. It’s still fairly early days. As I said about technology in the real estate industry can be quite resistant to change. So I think it’s something you’ve going to start seeing more of going forward. And although it may be a while until all the landlords are using this, it may never get to that stage where landlords use this. But we should be in a position where if you’ve employed a chartered surveyor, they will be able to provide you the advice on this. And they’ll be to give you what the IPMS measurement is for the buildings you’re looking at. They may need to measure it again themselves. If the information isn’t available, but they should be to give you that information to help you make your decisions.

Darren: I see, so, I think today you’ve covered a lot of very important information about what a surveyor does, the future of it, what can be done and why is it important? What kind of take away do you want the audience to have? Regardless, there are maybe retail investors, family offices. What kind of tips do you have for them to find the best surveyors or engage a surveyor to help their investments?

Tom: Thank you, So firstly, you need to make sure you’re engaged in the right surveyor. Now, surveyors should be able to tell you straight away. For instance, if someone phoned me up and said, hey, I’m looking for some advice, I’m looking to buy a shopping mall complex in Australia, I would say straightaway, “Look, I don’t have the knowledge in order to assist you on that. However, I can refer you to a colleague who does have that knowledge.” So you want to make sure you’re using the right surveyor for the job. So surveyors should tell you this, but do look at their background, look at where they’re based, look at their track record. Look at what projects they’ve been involved in in the past. Make sure you get the best person to give you that advice. The other thing, and this is the absolute key, is have a chat with them. Explain what your desired outcome looks like. So the surveyor should be saying to you right from the beginning. Okay, what is your current reality? What’s the position you’re currently in? And now what is your desired reality? How do you want this to look? Once we’ve gone through the project and they should be able to give you some information there and then about how they will help you get from your current reality to your desired reality. But I think really it comes down to expertise. If you’re not using a real expert. You’re not going to be getting the full value for money. So you really need to make sure you’re using the right person. And I think that can be difficult to find, but typically, you want to find someone who’s in the market you’re working in or has a track record within that market.

Darren: I see. I mean, that’s what Denzity kind of wants to do too, because we thought that if we have a better assortment of different experts for example different types of surveyors, different experience, different expertise, then people will spend less time sorting to find the experts. And there won’t be miscommunications or disengagement with someone that cannot help you? So it’s something that always obviously to me, it makes a lot of sense, but something that a lot of investors tend to make. So I want to say thank you for this episode, for your time it’s very informative and for the audience who might want to find you, talk to you more about your services, how would you suggest they reach out to you?

Tom: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m on Linkedin so you can search for Tom Parker MRICS. Yes. Or Tom Parker Collier’s and you should be to find me that way. Similarly, you could email me. Always very responsive to emails and happy to speak to people, even if they’ve just got a question about how to get into the industry as well. So my email is [email protected] And they are probably the two main methods to reach out and find me. I do produce a fair amount of media for other sources, but not on social media at the moment myself.

Darren: Okay, that’s fine. So I’ll include everything in the show notes and I want to say thank you for your time, it was a pleasure and I hope there’s a second episode where you can join us again, about maybe I’ll get Gary together, talk about the future of surveying, different type of a way of looking at it so thanks for your time again. Thank you.

Tom: No problem. Thanks, Darren. Thanks so much. Cheers.

Darren: Thank you, bye.

Tom: Bye bye.

Darren:Tom,嘿。 

Tom:嘿,Darren,最近怎麼樣?

 Darren:很好。好。感謝您的參與,因為我認為我遇到了您,我認為去年接近去年。在我們行業中,有很多人在歡樂時光裡喝酒。上個月我又和我的朋友Gary認識了。談論我們的工作真是太好了。還有一些我作為測量師真正想知道的事情,因為我曾經在房地產基金工作,所以我與測量師一起工作的唯一時間是評估。但是對於發展而言,顯然是在其他作品中往往會更多,並賦予不同的測量師。所以這關於此類主題更多。因此,感謝您的參與,我希望這對我們所有人來說都是爆炸。

Tom:太棒了,謝謝希望我和我都非常期待。

 Darren:是的,對於可能不知道您是誰的觀眾來說,您介意告訴他們您的背景以及您的工作嗎? 

 Tom:是的,絕對。所以,大家好 我叫Tom Parker。我是香港Colliers國際聯合會諮詢服務的經理。我在香港工作現在已經接近兩年了。以前,我曾在英國工作,於2011年開始工作。因此, 我是一名特許測量師。因此,這意味著我是英國皇家特許測量師學會的會員,並且我也是RICS註冊。所以我的大部分工作基本上都涉及進行評估和整個亞洲的諮詢項目。不僅限於香港,我還在英國從事一些工作。因此,這是一個相當全球性的任務。但本質上我的主要職責是幫助客戶制定投資決策,幫助他們有效地管理自己的投資組合,確保他們獲得正確的建議來製定這些決策。 

Darren:對於那些不熟悉測量師和評估師的聽眾和我自己來說,我感覺很好,您介意向聽眾大範圍介紹該概念及其作用嗎? 

Tom:當然。從本質上講,評估是測量師的職責。所以你可以有測量師擔任各種不同的角色。有測量師評估藝術品和文物,有測量師將測量參與其中的土地測量師項目建設。他們將研究建築物的缺陷,估計建築物的成本以及所需的建築材料。但是大多數調查一般來說,如果您聽到普通測量師,他們通常是財產測量師,通常也是商業測量師。因此,我們的職責之一就是評估。然後除此之外,我們還將進行房東和承租人工作,我們還將進行代理工作。因此,我們執行全部功能。評估本質上是給在特定時間點的物業或建築物的價值。這就是我們可以履行的眾多角色之一。

Darren:所以,是的,我就像生活在一塊岩石下,所以我對此主題有很多疑問。因此,在開始之前,您會介意的是,因為您剛才提到有商業測量師,有住宅測量師還有什麼其他類型?那麼,新的房地產投資者傾向於使用哪種類型的投資呢?

Tom:好的,最簡單的方法是分成三個不同的途徑。因此,有財產測量師。有土地測量師。然後是藝術品和古代測量師。所以藝術和古物相當小。這是測量的相當小眾的部分。他們本質上將看美術,提供價值用於美術。如果這完全是一門藝術,他們會評估附加值,例如,一個例子可能是,我來自英格蘭西南部,您可能聽說過塗鴉藝術家Banksy。

Darren:是的

Tom:擁有Banksy的房地產(在布里斯托爾有一些房地產)可能對該房地產的價值產生重大影響。所以我們看到啟用Banksy的屬性與相鄰的屬性之間存在巨大差異。這是事情的一方面。然后土地測量師,他們通常是您經常在街上看到的人。他們有三腳架。他們有相機。他們在看距離。他們看著不同的土地。那就是測量師最初的想法。一個主要角色,因此術語“測量員”,就是在測量土地,例如您會看到農產品。您在哪裡看到輪廓線。在這裡您可以看到高山。那是測量師最初製作的作品。那也仍然是–它已成為勘測領域的利基部分。因此,通常當有人說我是測量師時,我是特許測量師,他們會談論房地產測量,然後我們可以將其劃分為四個站點。我通常看的是商業建築,即辦公室,商店工業地產也可能是醫院,學校等。然後將有住宅空間,然後您還將擁有真正的測量師。您在香港並不常見。在英國相當普遍,他們將主要著眼於農田。他們將致力於出售大片土地。他們也會看替代能源項目也是如此。發電廠這樣的工作。然後還有數量測量師的建築。所以建築測量師就是你如果您想購買建築物,則會打電話給您,但您想知道,此物業有任何缺陷嗎?如果我今天買,我可能要花多少錢在未來五到十年?我正在將此建築物保持在標準水平。然後還有數量測量師。他們通常會長期建設項目。他們的工作是說,好的,要完成這個項目,您將需要X塊磚,一定數量的時間。因此,他們將與項目成本核算一起工作,以確保所有材料都按時交付。而且您確切知道要花多少錢。現在通常最主要的是商業空間。

Darren:顯然,因為在房地產調查中顯然具有非常重要的作用, 我將在後面詳細介紹。然後我只是認為,很多人在考慮測量時,它與轉售緊密相關。您是否願意在轉讓中作為測量師的角色中將其解釋為?

Tom:您看到,轉移實質上就是買賣資產。所以測量師,你不需要讓測量師與您一起買賣土地,但是我會強烈建議您這樣做。原因有很多。因此,如果您打算在首次購買或出售一塊土地時將測量師帶入,他們的角色將純粹是建議性的。所以你可以說,看,我對處置此財產感興趣。你能進來看看嗎?驗船師可以進來,首先,他們可以做的是為您評估財產的價值。所以在那個舞台上,您馬上就會知道,“好吧,我的大樓價值100萬港幣。” 因此,您對應該在市場上出售的商品有一個很好的了解,當您收到要約是否代表市場價值時,可以有相當的信心。他們的另一個角色可能是讓他們與您一起研究是否這樣做符合您當時的最大利益。因此,您可能會說,好吧,我們打算在未來六個月內處置此房產,但測量師可能會說,嗯,實際上,您考慮過這個嗎?這可能是在特定時間出售房產不符合其最大利益的多種原因。因此,驗船師應能夠與他們合作,以幫助他們提出解決方案。還有更多的爭奪和結構化的處置計劃。然後涉及到技術方面。所以我們做了很多工作仍然是基於代理機構。因此,我們將代表特定的賣方幫助他們找到該物業的買方。這不僅涉及尋找買家,而且還要確保達成買賣協議的條件,“它們最適合賣方並且可以得到最好的條件嗎?”這樣可以幫助他們知道自己正在得到-因此他們將在整個過程中一直得到他們的建議。然後,當涉及到實際的法律方面時產權轉讓,驗船師將與客戶一起與律師一起工作,以確保客戶得到房地產方面的建議。所以雖然很多律師是大多數律師,當涉及到房地產的一些技術性更高的方面時,他們將具有相當程度的房地產知識,但仍然值得付出您角落裡的測量師可以幫助您了解如果您同意某個條款,這對您意味著什麼,某個條款可能意味著什麼?確保您完全了解該過程。而且我認為他們可以增加律師在這種情況下可能做不到的價值。

Darren:我明白了。因為就像,當我聽它時,這似乎是一項非常技術性的工作,並且它似乎需要的所有東西都需要大量的學習,大量的經驗和深刻的見解。房地產行業的很多人甚至可能都不知道。因此,您需要成為一名測量師,並且需要成為哪種執照?

Tom:再次,這取決於您想參加哪種測量,要成為哪個專業背景,要成為哪個專業團體。通常術語“測量師”與特許測量師一詞並列。因此,如果有人對您說,我是特許測量師,或者您看到的名稱是MRCS, FRCS的名字後面,表示他們是特許機構的成員。因此,這是原始的專業機構。它成立了,我認為是成立於1868年,所以它是一個相當老的機構,帶您回去很遠。因此要成為RICS的成員,首先我們必須獲得RICS認可的學位。現在,我認為這是很多想要進入房地產領域的人並不總是立刻意識到。所以這是我沒有意識到的我自己。所以我的大學本讀地理。好吧,實際上,如果您想成為一名特許測量師,並且想要盡快完成,那麼您需要認可的學位。因此,為了獲得RICS的認證,我隨後取得了房地產碩士學位。一旦知道了然後您需要找到工作。因此,您將從研究生測量師開始。通常,研究生測量師將在業務,以便他們可以看到,我想從事估值工作嗎?我想從事專業諮詢嗎?我想為代理商工作嗎?他們將有機會探索不同的事物業務領域。然後,當他們這樣做時,他們會不斷成長-我們稱之為APC日記。因此,APC是評估的專業能力。還有你的日記是您隨時隨地填寫的內容。因此,您必須在兩年內執行此操作。在兩年結束時,您可以進行APC,即評估專業能力。然後包括訪談和演講。在這次面試中,評估人員將決定,此人是否證明其職業和道德標準,以便成為特許測量師?因此,如果您做得很棒,那就太好了。您已通過並成為特許測量師。另一條路線,這是東西這對那些可能沒有專業經驗的人開放,對不起沒有獲得認可學位的人是專業經驗的途徑。因此,這將允許積累了一定年限的專業經驗,有機會直接進入面試過程。這樣一來,專家小組就可以決定他們迄今為止是否有足夠的經驗,以及他們是否具備所需的素質。有不同的路線,沒有RICS學位不一定就是終點但是對於進入這個行業的年輕人來說,這是最快,最容易的特許經營方式。

Darren:這實際上聽起來像是很多工作。當您大聲說出來時,我就像:“哇,真高興我不必走那條路,因為我知道這是技術性的。” 我不是喜歡你的人,只是讀書和讀書知道它是如何工作的。它確實需要大量的專家經驗和學習,並且真的很擅長。所以,你知道,這是非常我不會說粗糙,這更像是房地產行業中一條有趣的途徑。有點酷。您知道,就像這次演出一樣,我確定您知道,適用於希望了解房地產,了解更多有關在海外或本地投資以及什麼是整個過程的最佳方法的投資者或人士。所以我想了解一下您的觀點,即房地產投資者在忽略與測量師的合作時會面臨哪些潛在風險?您知道,因為現在,我認為我們之前提到的問題是,在某些過程中,您將必須擁有一個。但是,成為顧問或擁有更長的團隊來幫助您將非常重要。因此,我想就此發表您的看法。

Tom:是的,肯定的。因此,對我而言,投資或良好的投資是要盡可能地降低自己的風險。通常,對於風險較小的投資,例如,將您的資金投入高息收益賬戶,這是一個相當低風險的投資。因此,您的回報水平也將很低。我們在說一個可能%。有了房地產,您通常可以獲得收益。香港的收益非常低。但是,儘管如此,您還是會尋找獲得收益率在2.5%到10%以上之間。現在,收益越高,風險水平就越高。但如果您想嘗試並真正了解這項投資,我想說的最好的辦法就是聘請專業顧問。因此,這應該是熟悉當地市場,熟悉房地產類型並且能夠給您對那項特定投資的公正評估。因此,例如,也許我們有一個客戶-假設情況,我們有一位客戶打算在泰國購置房產。現在他們可能會看一下屬性並認為“這太棒了。它每年為我們提供9.5%的收益。這看起來像是招募了一些好租戶。這是一棟漂亮的新建築。哪裡出問題了?” 好吧,實際上,有可能會出錯。最初的測量師,他們會去研究為您準備的物業,看看物業周圍地區發生了什麼。例如,可能正在進行一些嚴重的基礎架構工作,這將影響在未來幾年內該物業的可及性。如果您查看租戶資料,他們可能有空缺的市場知識顧問,並說:“嘿,您的主租戶已經進入了在過去六個月中尋找新房產。“現在,除非您開始與專業人士交談,否則您通常不會擁有這些信息。現在,如果您與一般房地產經紀人交談,他們可能會告訴您這樣的事情,以試圖說服您購買或不購買財產。如果您正在聘請測量師,並且正在聘請專業人士,那麼您應該能夠更多地依賴該信息。如您所知,驗船師沒有隱藏的議程。他們向您很清楚開始。如果他們存在利益衝突或沒有利益衝突,那麼就不應該為您行事。但是通常,如果他們為您活躍,他們就不會。這樣您就可以確信他們正在給予您沒有偏見和獨立的建議。這樣可以幫助您制定購置房產的策略。因此,您現在可以看一下,然後說:“好吧,有40%該物業在未來18個月內可能會空置,市場情況如何?”而且,驗船師將能夠與他們合作,說,實際上,在過去六個月中,諮詢量下降了20%。我們看到租金在下降,並且在過去幾個季度中下降了5% que on que,我們的預測是,在接下來的兩個季度中,它們還將繼續下降。這樣您就可以開始建立更多詳細說明是否進行投資的方法。這使您可以做一個適當的評估。可能是,一旦您在閒置期間建立了建築,一旦您建立了租金下降,又在考慮了所有其他因素之後,一旦得出了最終數字, 驗船師可能會說,嗯,實際上您是在以1,000萬泰銖的價格購入這處房產。實際上,我們只考慮該物業的價值為700萬泰銖,尤其是如果您想要達到8-9%的收益率。因此,它可以幫助您降低投資風險。 驗船師還可以發揮其他作用。因此,您可能同時僱用了建築測量師和商業測量師。建築測量師可能會說,嗯,我已經看了一下,我看了看建築,建築物內有幾種有害物質,或者建築物內有一些固有缺陷。和雖然目前可能不是問題,但在未來五到十年內,這可能會成為更多問題,並可能需要大量的資本支出來解決。所以它也需要更長遠的時間,並希望在這段時間內您的費用將會增加。因此,您可以看到一開始,投資者可能會看一下投資並認為這很棒,但是如果他們再深入一點,他們可能會開始看到一些問題,一些隱性成本以及一些他們將必須要做的事情在接下來的幾年中克服。因此,對我而言,這是向投資者提供他們需要的所有信息,以使我們更加清晰和盡可能透明的決定。這確實是測量師的價值。而且我見過很多人去買房而沒有去過的地方適當地了解了該物業,沒有採取正確的建議,這是回來對他們進一步造成傷害。他們賺的錢不如他們本來可以做的,否則他們最終會虧本。

Darren:當然。我想,如果每天用牙線剔牙,人們會感覺很像。人們知道他們只是忘了它。所以很明顯希望這種類型的視頻能夠幫助人們提醒他們,嘿,也許您應該考慮與一個人或團隊中的某個人交往,以便做出更好的決策。然後,我將切換回您正在使用的更熟悉商業設置權。測量師可以對投資產生什麼樣的影響?

Tom:顯然,有在您打算購買房地產之前,他們將做初步工作,而我們剛剛介紹了該房地產。然後,還有財產的持續管理。所以測量師或測量公司,因為您將使用不同的部門或不同類型的測量師來執行此工作,因此將能夠為您管理財產。他們將能夠找到新的租戶。他們將在這里為您提供市場上其他地方的建議。例如,出售類似的建築物最近。您是否看到某些租戶想要四處走動?市場上發生了什麼?它將幫助您真正了解發生了什麼,並真正為您提供做出詳細決策所需的信息。所以什麼時候關於董事會會議,您必須非常清楚,非常簡潔的細節才能準確地了解正在發生的事情。因此,您可以做出最佳決策。角色之一,但房地產經紀人經常會在代理方面模糊不清。為機構使用測量師與使用測量師有很大不同房地產經紀人。首先,關於驗船師的其他專業和道德要求,他們不能為您服務,或者如果有必要,他們就不能工作。有利益衝突。因此,您知道,他們為您所做的一切都將符合您的絕對最大利益。他們給你的建議不是讓你做一個決定。他們不是要從您那裡賺錢。為您做出最佳決策。我認為對我來說, 是測量師的基本素質。人們繼續與測量師交流的原因是信任程度和透明度。

Darren:我知道,到目前為止,顯然在整個問題中,您都列出了一些驗船師可以提供幫助的方式。您介意嗎,因為像很多人一樣,可能需要對如何遍歷以及一切進行一些解釋。你介意做一個講解一個或兩個場景,說明人們如何以及為何需要與測量師互動,並假設有一個基金,或者,您知道有家族辦公室的人。

Tom:好的,所以我想一個例子可能是一家擁有幾座商業辦公樓的基金。他們是研究他們應該如何使用這些屬性。他們應該堅持嗎?他們應該賣嗎?如果出售它們,應該出售一兩個還是全部出售?因此,我想說的是,如果您曾經擔任過這個職位,那麼最好的辦法就是直接與測量師交談。驗船師將能夠進入並為您提供該信息。它的最初的工作方式,我想說,您在此階段可以做的最好的事情是,或者第一步是獲得完整的評估完成所有屬性。因此,這應該使該基金能夠說,好的,這是我們的財產。如果我們要在市場上出售它們,這就是它們的價值。當前市場。這樣一來,您可以查看如果出售該物業的潛在回報。我要說的第二階段是整個市場,一個市場評估,某種程度上看市場上正在發生的事情,看其他可用的東西。所以驗船師可以與他們一起說,好吧,如果您出售了這些房產,您可能會希望重新部署大量資本。現在您可以考慮將其重新部署到本地市場。我們為您找到了一些機會。並且會為他們提供屬性列表和詳細信息潛在回報。有關我們如何考慮這些特定投資的風險,如何看待該資產的詳細信息隨著時間的流逝。那麼,我們是否認為它可能受到高空缺的威脅?我們看到正在建造新建築物嗎可能會參與競爭,從而使該基金說:“好吧,如果我們確實賣出,這就是我們可以做的。 改為購買。”這不僅可以擴展到本地市場,還可以擴展到更國際化的規模。因此,這可能是一個基金請香港我們為他們研究一下。我們說,嗯,您是否考慮過在馬來西亞投資?我們可以將它們與我們位於世界各地的專家將能夠幫助他們了解該市場上的可用產品。所以這是給他們的。我們不是在說他們做出哪個決定。我們正在向他們提供數據。我們正在為他們提供他們所需的信息,以便他們開始做出這些決定。現在,回到估價報告中有關估價的方面,我們通常也會就物業內可以做什麼提供建議為了幫助保留其價值或提高其價值。所以我們可能要說的一件事是當前的平均值租賃期限很短。因此,如果我們出售房產,而您只能說出未來六個月的當前收入水平,立即開始為投資者敲響警鐘。鑑於我們可以對他們說,如果從目前的情況來看,平均租賃時間為兩年,如果我們擴展其中一些關鍵租戶,希望將他們與新租約捆綁在一起,也許將他們捆綁更長的時間,可能長達三年可能會對您的整體價值產生影響。您甚至可以為他們提供租金折扣,以使他們簽訂更長的租約。而且那仍然會增加的價值,因為它提高了投資者對收入水平的了解程度。因此,它也幫助他們在那裡放置資產。所以說,如果您確實處置了這項資產,您可以通過這種方法確保其在市場上處於最佳位置,以實現最高的價格。那如果你說對,那就是。我們要出售這兩個屬性。然後,您可以重新帶這個測量師,以幫助您出售財產。因此,這將是合適的營銷計劃,將其發送給他們可能知道目前在市場上的各方,並幫助賣方為商品爭取最佳價格。屬性。然後,一旦完成,他們可以再次與他們合作,確定我們現在將資金移至何處?我們將這筆資金用於什麼?所以這是關於向他們提供所有建議和指導,並確保他們掌握了做出決定所需的所有信息。,然後確保他們做出的任何決定都得到了建議,以確保他們將自己定位在最佳位置,從而實現目標最好的,他們可以做到的最好的結果。現在,在重新開發方面,測量師還可以扮演其他角色,研究即將開展的工作。香港的探戈舞總是很有趣的。許多建築物可以重建實現更高的銷售價格。這可能也是客戶最初沒有考慮的事情,但這可能是我們提供給他們的事情。所以說實際上目前該物業的價值為20億港元。但是,您有機會重新開發此資產,並且有一棟最近重新開發的建築物就在街對面,規模差不多,現在價值40億港幣。因此,也許他們然後與他們一起進行重新開發資產,以使他們擁有最大的可能。他們已將特定屬性的價值最大化。

Darren:我認為您在整個繪畫方面做得很好因為現在,我敢肯定每個人都會像現在一樣,我理解了差異,然後聽起來您就像也是投資者非常緊密的聯盟喜歡如何使資產更好,投資更好並且思考得更好。顯然,決策仍在投資者的角度。但是您可以在每一個地方為他們提供支持旅程。因此,您對自己的工作以及測量員的整體做了很好的繪畫,這些年來,行業是如何發展的?然後你知道我們倆了解Property Tech及其功能。您對技術如何改變其整體前景有何看法?

Tom:因此,僅簡要介紹一下我們的職業歷史。因此,驗船師實際上是在古埃及發現了驗船師一詞的首次使用。因此,測量師在埃及時代開始工作。當尼羅河每年洪水氾濫時,他們幫助繪製了土地圖。然後當洪水退去時,他們幫助繪製了誰或哪個特定農民將擁有哪個特定土地的地圖。這就是調查開始的方式。然後甚至直到200年前,這仍然是測量師的主要角色。這是關於測繪土地。這與註冊所有權有關。現在,當工業革命發生時,您看到了更多的商業建築。所以直到那時商店肯定是,但通常情況下,商店是某人房屋的底樓。你真的沒有工廠大廈。您將擁有農場,但沒有工廠。和概念那時的辦公室仍然相當抽象。因此,當工業革命發生時,您開始在商業建築的開發方式中看到更多。然後,為了滿足這些建築物的所有者的需求,也進行了測量。首先,工廠,辦公室不管是誰,有一天會佔領這座建築物,但後來他們開始意識到,好吧,我們想要遷移到一家更大的工廠,但我想抓住這個工廠,嘗試尋找新的租戶。這就是調查真正開始發生變化的地方, 在這方面變得更具交易性,也更具諮詢性。那確實是商業測量的誕生。現在,作為行業,為了適應技術變化,測量一直很慢。來自曾經非常高興的老闆告訴我標準的一天將如何開始,他們都坐在市長房間裡閒逛了兩個小時。我的一些前同事,尤其是年長的同事,他們所做的大部分工作仍然是筆和紙。他們仍然喜歡使用捲尺,量尺。他們沒有繼續前進我想說的是最近的事態發展。但是實際上,激光測量,計算機輔助設計之類的東西已經存在了很長時間。但仍然,特別是在我們最年長的測量師中,仍然不願意正確地接受這一點。今天我們仍然看到它。我會說,利用技術,勘測落後於許多其他部門。現在,我不確定到底是什麼原因。我在香港也不得不說,這似乎是一個特殊的問題。我會說香港也許還沒有完全以與世界上其他一些地區相同的方式接受了所有變化。但是展望未來,我認為技術具有巨大的潛力來嚴重破壞我們的工業。因此,最近我們一直在進行評估,例如進行評估,其中一件事是您可以開始看到更多東西,然後您開始在世界其他地方看到是自動評估模型。因此,從本質上講,這些就是您會在許多網站上看到的內容,您可以免費獲得一份,只需輸入屬性地址和詳細信息,它為您提供了一個粗略的價值,其中自動變化模型採取了進一步的步驟。所以,再次,您付出所有有關您財產的詳細信息,然後在10分鐘之內,它可以為您提供相當準確的估價。所以我看到有報導說他們已經設法以95%的準確度獲得了自動振動模型。我沒有爭議,我認為肯定會開始發生更多的事情。但是該技術仍在追趕。它仍在嘗試將所有評估屬性值可能需要的所有微妙之處。但這將嚴重改變我們評估屬性的方式。對於投資者來說如果他們能在10分鐘內得到一個數字,那麼他們就不用花兩週的時間來聘請測量師事務所為他們進行評估,盡量減少所有這些人為錯誤,這將是一個主要的吸引力。另一面是我們代理。 因此,我們已經看到了虛擬代理的興起。因此,目前這些還沒有採取任何物理形式。完全是基於在線。但是我看過一些地方,您外出時,手機上有虛擬座席,您可以說:“哦,嘿該物業在隔壁賣了什麼?”虛擬代理將配備所有可用的交易信息。建立到該數據庫中,他們可以說,哦,去年該物業以這個價格出售。現在,通常,如果輸入property的命令誰向您展示周圍的人,都應該能夠大致告訴您隔壁將出售哪些物業。但是要獲得這項服務,要有人掌握所有信息, 您有記錄的單筆交易,這是非常有價值的。這些電子代理商可以24/7全天候使用。他們有100% 回調記錄。因此,確實,這將大大改變我們買賣房地產的方式。現在,這是否意味著像我這樣的人,人類測量師?不,絕對不是。我當然希望不會。我認為仍有房地產。真實房地產仍然是很多關係驅動的。而且我認為永遠都會如此。因此,我認為這些技術變革將有助於稱讚行業,並且將有助於也要提高我們的標準。它們將幫助我們最大程度地減少一些錯誤,並幫助我們提高效率。但是就估值而言,是的,估值的很大一部分是科學的,但估值也仍然是一門藝術。而且我不確定計算機模型是否能夠完全抓住了這一點。他們可能會做。但是我的想法是他們不會。因此,我認為對於人類測量師來說,總會有一個角色,但是技術無疑具有的巨大潛力,可以改變我們所知道的行業。 

Darren:是的。我的意思是,例如,有很多類似的產品可以方便AVM等測量員使用就像我記得當我聽說它的時候一樣,我就像“這太棒了,難以置信”。但是行業中的許多人會認為,嘿,可以在某些市場上使用AVM。不是所有的人。並不是所有的資產類別,商業廣告除了它之外沒有太多可比性。住宅區比較容易,但即使是重新分區或新開發項目也將大不相同。同時,有演習和一切。但是我相信驗船師有點像,神經元太多了,你不能只是擁有一台電腦就說,嘿,這是最好的結果。我相信有時會有更多的神經元不屬於其中一部分-因為我們共同的朋友加里(Gary)擁有一家名為inflow的創業公司。所以我看到了關於全球測量標準的客座帖子。對此感到遺憾,國家財產管理的標準,對此感到抱歉,然後您會介意向觀眾解釋這是怎麼回事,因為我對此很陌生,在行業中似乎是一個很大的話題。

Tom:是的。絕對。首先,我將簡要介紹一下您剛才說的內容關於AVM在香港某些市場也能更好地工作的情況,我們非常幸運。市場非常透明。有很多可比較的信息。其他市場也一樣,澳大利亞,英國也是如此。一些透明度較低的市場中的透明度很高的市場像菲律賓,越南,柬埔寨,緬甸。根本找不到任何可比較的信息。即使你做到了,你也不會對此充滿信心。您永遠不要拿到可以為這類市場找到的比較信息,並依靠它。這就是再次具有潛力的地方。它有潛力,但是仍然有很多問題。然後繼續討論下一個有關國際財產計量標準的問題。我將其稱為IPMS簡短。少說幾句,但實際上又是關於透明度和市場上可用的信息。所以在全球化之前,我想說沒關係,因為不同的市場會有一定的測量標準和測量建築物的方式已使用。很好,因為通常您不需要像今天一樣詳細地了解其他國家和市場。 我們現在遇到的問題是,如果您負責該指令,則是一家大型跨國公司的真正國家主管,則您負責屬性遍布全球。而且,如果您要比較的是房地產,通常我們首先要考慮的是房地產它有多大?多少平方英尺?每平方英尺多少錢?我可以租用每平方英尺租金,甚至可以低至其他運營成本通常會表示運行成本,您可能會說,運行這棟特定建築物的價格為每平方米30美元。一切都帶回大小。您需要多少空間?它再次下降到平方英尺。但是我們發現的問題之一可能是在最近才發現的10,15年前。但是他們看著-他們走的是同一棟辦公樓,完全一樣的地板。他們有來自世界各地的各種專業人士嘗試測量建築物並說出建築物的大小。他們發現,兩者之間的未報價區域相差25%專業人士,這是巨大的,這確實是巨大的。甚至不知道如何決定房地產和財產提供最基本的信息,使您能夠做到這一點。我們在市場上發現的是有人會來找我們,他們會說,好的,我們有100人,在英國,每100平方英尺有1人。所以這就是我們需要很多空間。但是,當您開始尋找空間時,可能是英國的市場規模比您所尋找的市場大25%在。因此,您實際上可能佔用的空間太小25%。而且我們已經看到這成為一個問題。你看到的是對於企業來說成本很高,因為它們無法從一開始就讓所有員工都適合辦公室,然後他們最終不得不搬一次,所以他們花了所有的錢去辦公室,然後他們在他們不得不繼續尋找更好,更大的建築物之前,只能在那裡租用一個租期。因此,為了幫助他們做出公平競爭的決策,入了真正的全球測量標準的想法開始了人們的生活自2016年1月起僅在辦公室設有辦事處。因此,到目前為止,我們還沒有看到大量的採用。但是如果您與特許測量師交談,這是他們會非常熟悉的事情,並且特許測量師應該能夠為您提供建築區域使用IPMS資產,因此它們應該能夠查看您在不同國家/地區的兩座建築物,並為您提供一致的測量標準,然後您就可以使用該標准進行決策。現在,我認為這對香港也很重要的原因之一,在香港尋找辦公場所時,您可以很快就對房東使用什麼測量基礎感到困惑。您會看到一些房東說這間辦公室的總面積為10,000平方英尺。這是10,000平方英尺的字母Bo。無論他們要使用哪種測量基礎,這都是1萬平方英尺。這是相當在大多數其他市場上是香港獨有的。使用相同度量基礎的所有房東不一定使用IPMS,但他們將使用相同度量基礎。但是在香港,比較某些建築物可能非常困難,因為它們是以不同的方式進行測量的。這絆倒了很多這裡的住戶也是如此,因為他們可能會說,好吧,我們看著這幢大樓的10,000平方英尺,所以在這幢大樓中必須相同。現在,這完全取決於他們使用的測量基礎。您可能會想,因為得到了租金,他們可能會說這是每平方英尺20港元。這棟建築的價格為HK $ 100每平方步行,想一想,這間便宜的建築物真是太好了,但實際上可能並非如此。您可能會為實際可實際使用的空間支付更多費用,因為他們使用的基準測量。因此,IPMS的真正意義在於提高透明度,讓居住者和決策者確切了解他們實際上在建築物中有很多空間。因此,這是非常重要的一步。

Darren:我知道,這聽起來很重要,對嗎?因此,假設您在整個行業中擁有大型的,廣為人知的廣播或聲音,那麼您如何告訴他們該標準將如何影響行業?我想問您更多有關您為什麼認為它尚未實施的問題?因為這聽起來像驗船師的觀點,所以聽起來甚至很合乎邏輯當我聽到它的完整描述時,到目前為止聽起來很合乎邏輯,但是到目前為止還沒有被採納嗎?

Tom: 是的,所以我認為IPMS是一項舉措。所以也許不是RICS的人最初的成員會喜歡哦,這不適用於我,我不需要使用它。甚至是RICS的人成員也是如此。目前仍然很難實施。其中很多都歸結為教育。所以許多客戶會說我們一直使用這種衡量基礎,這對我們來說很難向投資者解釋為什麼該地區突然發生變化,您現在告訴我,該物業比我們想像的要小10%。這就是困難。我認為那是作為測量師的角色之一是幫助提高我們客戶之間的意識,並向他們展示其好處,幫助他們感到更多也許對使用它感到舒適。還很早。正如我所說的,房地產行業的技術可以抗拒更改。因此,我認為這是您將開始看到更多前進的東西。儘管所有房東都可能需要一段時間使用此功能,可能永遠不會到達房東使用此功能的階段。但是我們應該處於一個位置,如果您僱用了特許測量師,他們將能夠為您提供建議。它們將為您提供正在查看的建築物的IPMS測量結果。他們可能需要自己重新測量。如果該信息不可用,但是應該向您提供這些信息,以幫助您做出決定。

Darren:我明白了,所以,我想今天您涵蓋了很多非常重要的信息,這些信息涉及測量師的工作,其未來,可以做什麼以及為什麼這樣做重要嗎?拿什麼您想讓觀眾擁有嗎?無論如何,也許會有散戶投資者,家族理財室。您為他們找到最佳的測量師或聘請測量師幫助他們的投資有哪些技巧?

Tom:謝謝,因此,首先,您需要確保您選擇的是正確的測量師。現在,測量師應該能夠分辨你馬上就走。例如,如果有人打電話給我說,嘿,我在尋找一些建議,我想在紐約購買一家購物中心澳大利亞,我會直截了當地說:“看,我沒有知識來協助您。但是,我可以將您推薦給具有該知識的同事。”因此,您要確保您使用的是正確的測量師,因此測量師應告訴您但是請查看他們的背景,他們所基於的位置以及他們的往績。看一下他們過去參與過哪些項目。確保您有最好的人為您提供建議。的這是絕對的關鍵,就是和他們聊天。解釋您期望的結果是什麼樣的。因此,測量師應該從一開始就對您說。好的,您目前的現實是什麼?您目前所處的位置是?現在您想要的現實是什麼?您希望它看起來如何?一旦我們走了通過項目,他們應該能夠在此為您提供一些信息,然後提供有關它們如何幫助您從當前現實變為理想現實的信息。但是我認為這實際上取決於專業知識。如果您沒有使用真正的專家。你不會得到全部物有所值。因此,您確實需要確保使用的人合適。而且我認為可能很難找到,但是通常,您想找到某個人在您正在工作的市場中,或者在該市場中有往績記錄。

Darren:我明白了。我的意思是,這就是 Denzity想要做的事情,因為我們認為,如果我們擁有更多的不同專家,例如不同類型的測量師,不同的經驗,不同的專業知識,那麼人們將花費更少的時間進行分類以找到專家。而且不會與您發生誤解或脫離接觸有人無法幫助您嗎?因此,對我來說,這總是很明顯的,很有意義,但很多投資者卻傾向於這樣做。所以我想說聲謝謝您的這段時間這是非常有用的信息,對於可能想要找到您的受眾群體,與您更多地談論您的服務,您如何建議他們與您聯繫?

Tom:是的,絕對是。所以我在 Linkedin上,所以您可以搜索Tom Parker MRICS。是。或Tom·帕克·科利爾(Tom Parker Collier),您應該以這種方式找到我。同樣,您可以給我發送電子郵件。總是非常響應電子郵件,並樂於與人們交談,即使他們也只是對如何進入該行業有疑問。所以我的電子郵件是[email protected]。它們可能是聯繫並找到我的兩種主要方法。我確實為其他來源製作了大量的媒體,但本人目前不在社交媒體上。 

Darren:好的,很好。所以我將把所有內容都包含在演出記錄中,我想說聲謝謝您的光臨,這是我的榮幸,希望第二集可以再次加入我們,也許我會得到加里一起討論測量的未來,以及不同的觀察方式,再次感謝您的寶貴時間。謝謝。 

Tom:沒問題。謝謝,Darren。非常感謝。乾杯。

Darren:謝謝,再見。

Tom:再見。

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